Im a main DH, spin to win is strong, but boring gameplay, we already have GoD set to spin, for me i would change the natalya set for rain of vengeance back as, add it to the 2 set bonus rain of veangeance has no cooldown and costs 10 hatred(so focus and restraint can be used, and dont have a hatred starvation like it is now, it will be good with some cost reduction), add to the 4th piece rain of vengeance can be stacked to 10 at a time and has more duration(i dont know the duration base, but can be worked with. and could be stacked to 10 for the bonus damage of the set 6th piece), add to 6th piece rain of vengeance casts spike traps for every hit(and only rain of vengeance ,Vengeance and Hatred Generators), that way we would have a smoth gameplay and not spin to win. For that to work i would buff a little bit of the GoD set, so everyone can have a spin to win viable too, if they like so, about 5-8 tiers for the GoD set would be the about the same tier for the natalya in ptr, and change the duration for the stacks for 5 seconds, so we dont need to press a hatred generator every half a second, Thanks and good luck.
The whole current Natalya rework is wrong from the ground up. The set should be designed first and foremost to be centered around manually casting spike traps. Therefore, the 2p bonus should instead first remove the cooldown of spike traps (not apply traps on hit), and then the 6p bonus should allow for a much higher chain detonation bonus combined with a much higher max trap count than 10.
The Nat’s set should essentially be a further development from the Diablo 2 trap assassin. That means the goal should be to optimize trap placement relative to trash density and then trigger the traps manually (using another skill like a generator or rain of vengeance, not strafe) for huge chain detonation damage. Wudijo did a good discussion video of that idea here:
If they fix GoD to actually be spin to win, sure. Having to stutter step literally every second to keep damage stacks at maximum is not fun.
You can actually play GoD by standing still, all the strafing does is give defense and speed and a few generator procs, you can still do reasonable damage by spamming the generator.
If your suggestions went live would the play style just be stand there and spam RoV while things get covered in traps? Then you vault for a bit and spam more? Sounds really fun…
Or could be like the normal cooldown for the rain of Vengeance, as it right now, and u cast 5 spike traps and use the rain of vengeance to explode the traps, and Only with rain of vengeance could explode then, so u need to manually cast the traps and then use the rain, its and idea too, but i really dont know what blizz thinks about the natalya set for now, so we gotta see what they say about it.
I agree!
I would like RoV as the casting skill for traps and another skill (e.g. Elemental Arrow, Chakram or a Generator-Skill) for triggering the traps.
Nobody is forcing you to use strafe as a skill. What about rapid Fire? Multishot? There’s multiple ways to trigger the traps!
Just because everyone else uses strafe, doesn’t mean you are forced to do it as well. use your own brain and make changes to whatever you dont like with the build.
Thats what i do all the time. i tweak things so they match my playstyle. Might not be the META, but idc about meta because 90% of the top players are botters.
Just look at their online times vs how long the season was active. They have literally been online almost 24 hours of every day of the season… And ofc blizzard doesnt ban botters on an abandoned game. Maybe we all should start botting just to keep up…
The main point is that strategically placing the traps MANUALLY should be the core of Nat’s set. RoV can then be used as the trigger skill, or something else, not strafe. The overall goal is to gather enough mobs together to get a big chain detonation bonus, so the 6p bonus needs to be WAY higher than 10% per explosion, and the trap limit needs to be increased to 20 or 50 or something.
The chanon bolter effect lures mobs to your trap locations, which helps in this proposed design. The current “spin to win” playstyle makes chanon bolter largely useless.
D3’s design should not be based around “let’s have X skill deliver Y skill to enemies because it’s too boring to cast Y skill manually”.
Such ideas have already been theorycrafted and deemed inferior to the strafe playstyle. The lightning rune is absurdly overpowered relative to the other options, which combined with the 10 trap limit strongly encourages the strafe playstyle.
The current version of Nat’s is not a spike trap build. Spike trap delivers the damage, but the set has nothing to do with spike traps in terms of player gameplay in making strategic decisions. We don’t need a spike trap version of GOD.
I keep seeing similar phrasing which I myself have used. Then claiming GoD is the spin to win build. GoD is a stutter stepping generator build that requires the use of 2 crappy generator pieces, ruining build variances by removing the ability to use multiple sub sets. It’s largely limited to hungering arrow and 1 OP rune and 1 speed rune unless of course you enjoy doing content 30 tiers lower.
Where were all these people complaining about strafe when Nats was Strafing and spamming RoV?
I 100% agree with you, natalya now is just a different GoD build with, same gameplay, what we suggest is a different gameplay in our hands, like Rain of Vengeance procs spike traps, or Rain of Vengeance explodes spike traps, the cast of the spike trap is a must for the gameplay, its uses your brain to place in the right spot at the right time, so u have a UNIQUE gameplay with the build, natalya set was boring and continues to do so being just a copy of GoD set.
Who cares if it’s inferior to other playstyles?
If we assume the Tal Rasha Wizard is the strongest wizard, then all other variations of wizard playstyle are pointless and not worth it?
Are you basing your desire to play a certain build a certain way on how high you can get on a pointless leaderboard full of botters and cheaters?
If you want to play strafe nats… cool.
If you want to play multishot nats… cool.
If you wanna play strafe GoD… cool.
If you wanna play Marauder Sentry… cool.
Just play whatever you find fun and engaging and set your own goals.
Don’t define everything by broken leaderboards and tier lists. They are truly meaningless, and then try to dictate to other how they should view certain builds.
If you don’t like the build, move to a build you do like.
There is none remaining, because natalya is so oldschool that all the people that enjoyed playing natalya, are playing other games now XD
Exactly. There’s clearly more desire/interest in a mindless strafe trap Natalya build then there is for whatever variation of manual trap placing someone can come up with.
I see the argument that you can just play strafe GoD if you like this playstyle.
The same could be said about manually placing traps… there is a marauder sentry build that does it better.
Our idea is to not make STRAFE the best option for the build, as it is for GoD set.
I dont care about ranking, high paragons and high clears at fast times, my point in the game is to have fun, and playing as a GoD variant is not fun, because you already have GoD set. Making a UNIQUE playstyle is fun, you can still play with the heck of a skill you want.
Imagine a unique style for example, the traps dont explode when mobs are near, and you need to cast Rain of vengeance to trigger then, the more time is the traps in the ground, more damage you do when you explode then to a max of 15-30 seconds. So you would have time to lure enemies and think what to do next, thats a unique playstyle that no other build has. It would be fun to see a full screen of mobs and elites go KABOOM with one press of a button, you can see the difference in gameplay?
Now you have a multishot to cast spike traps, you litterally have the same gameplay as UE set, now you have sentry for the same marauder set, now you have rapid fire for the LoD/LoN build, see, there is already a build with those, changing the skill you use dont change the gameplay, and thats is important for the game. If i really want to play a lot of variants of just one build, i would play path of exile for the limitless amounts of builds you can create. Botters and cheaters dont mind the build, they just want the strongest and fastest build, to farm the most amount of paragons and materials, and sometime in the future, do some ranking in a game that doesnt matter the ranking at all, but for us that play the game, to have a good time with friends in discord, botters and cheaters dont even exists for us,and u just should ignore them, F those guys, i dont think blizz will do anything about that in the near furute with d4 already coming, but i hope for some good changes yet to come.
KABOOM! Exactly what I mean.
What would I do for natalya set:
Natalya’s Vengeance (2-piece bonus):
Each Spike Trap detonation restores 1 Discipline and 5 Hatred and has no cooldown. Doubles the Amount of traps you use at the same time (max 4 per cast with Scatter rune).
Natalya’s Vengeance (4-piece bonus):
Laying a Spike Trap grants 60% damage reduction. The duration of this bonus is always equal to the number of already laid traps in seconds (Max 10-20 seconds).
Cannot trigger traps with any skills, or by time, or by monsters passing by, instead Rain of Vengeance Triggers all the traps simultaneously.
Natalya’s Vengeance (6-piece bonus):
Spike traps deal 10000% more damage per second in the ground, to a max of 15-30 seconds, can have up to 20 maximun traps at a time. When Spike Traps are exploded, you have 50% bonus movement speed boost for 10 seconds.
(with the current version, you can have 8.5 casts of traps per second using strafe, in 30 seconds u have 255 traps, thats just too much. lol?)