NOW I know what you’re going to say: There’s only one set of gems that can work for a build, and anything else just makes me a noob, or scrub, or whatever insult de jour you want to apply.
HAVING SAID THAT, I still think you’re going to be wrong, and want you to convince me with logic.
Currently, I’m running a UE build, all accurate according to the various sites. I think. I might be running a different necklace because the ideal ones never showed. Anyway, this is about the gems.
Almost every build I’ve seen calls for Stricken. My problem with that is WHY?! I mean, sure the 25% buff is nice…but there are a lot of other gems out there that yield a better buff for everything. I mean, at 100, Stricken is what not even 2% buff? In terms of…well most anything, 2% is nothing. I recently have tried out Mirinae, and found it to be exceptionally nice against my multishots. Since the majority of my MS hits double down, that means 30% per wave. Quite frankly, at GR70, anything shy of a boss vaporizes. I’ll be surprised if it doesn’t stay that way as I move up the scale, barring a major upgrade above 85 or so.
So from there, just in case I missed something, I was looking at both Effacious and Iceblink. They both have their own interesting aspects. A powered up Effacious works nicely with a long-range strategy. Iceblink, powered up, would also help in time with both Cull The Weak AND Bane of the Trapped. Given I’ve currently spec’d MS into Windchill for the slow ANYWAY, it seems like I either don’t understand what the interaction Stricken is supposed to have, or is it there more to it than “no one ever questioned it”?
Maybe I haven’t been paying attention, but I’m not aware of anyone claiming Stricken is a must have. I don’t use it. I prefer BotP myself. To each their own. Use what you like.
Bane of the Stricken stacks with attacks. The lvl 110 BoS on my Seasonal UE gives a 1.9% damage buff per attack. This stacks indefinitely on one target. The main bonus for using BoS with UE/CC is when killing the Rift Guardian.
Instead of BoS, a lot of people use Bane of the Powerful (as TimberWolf mentions), Gogok of Swiftness (the most fun gem in the slot for me), or Molten Wildebeest’s Gizzard to help keep the Squirts buff up.
So as you can see, in here you are not going to get “There’s only one set of gems…” You should see the theory crafting and testing that goes on behind the scenes with a lot of the folks who post here.
It is interesting that you mention Effacious Toxin and Iceblink. I use both of those gems with my ZDH.
Windchill is an awesome spec for a T16 or speed GR build. When good fire gear drops, hang onto it. As you learn the build you might find Fire to work better at higher GR’s.
I like to tell people to run what’s fun. Experiment and ask questions.
I find that as my gear improves, the gems that work best for my play style change.
Sorry I didn’t call you a Noob or scrub. We don’t usually do that here.
Edit: Here is a link to a thread that talks about different gem combinations that folks are trying with the UE since the last patch:
Gem choice really depends on what set you’re running. UE, there are many choices to replace Stricken.
But if you’re running Shadow (or any elite hunting build from other classes as well), Stricken turns into a good gem. With Shadow, the gem to replace is Zie’s. Some folks use gogok, some folks use BotP. I think gogok is the go to. BotP requires that you hang around to kill elite minions which slows you down too much in high grifts. But Stricken stays because of rift guardians and high hitpoint elites.
But as far as Marauder’s and UE, Stricken isn’t a necessity. It isn’t terrible for those builds though. It’s just a matter of choice. Stricken makes fighting the Rift Guardian faster for when you’re finishing a Grift with less than a minute or so left for the Guardian in High Grifts. But other gems can help you finish a grift quicker, leaving more time for the Guardian Fight.
Neither strategy is bad in my opinion but around Grift 120 or so Grift Guardian Fight can be exceedingly long without Stricken but it all depends on how quickly you can get the Guardian to show up.
If you really think that, then you have been paying attention to the wrong guys so far. Welcome to the forums and the real Demon Hunters!
Some useful hints are already given. I wouldn’t use Effacious for pushing, as the poison damage is not buffed by UE6 (and is therefore negligible), and the 10% more damage are additive with DIBS and with up to 45% damage to MS it’s more like 7-8% more damage.
I wouldn’t use Mirinae either, as it’s bonus is also not buffed by UE6. It may be a good gem for low GR, but not in higher GR (90, 100 and above).
I like Gogok the most for UE (cleared GR113 so far in Season 18), many prefer Gizzard with Squirts now, BotP is a great option for speeds and moderate GR (5-10 minutes), BotS is for high end pushing only (with lots of pulling to compensate the damage loss during the rift), and it is imho not the best option for the “average DH”. Not at all. So these 4 gems are widely used, some others may be used as well.
There is no best gem, only a best gem for you. Which one that will be, is up to you, mostly. We can help you by providing some information about how the gems work, and why they may be stronger than others in some situations.
But if someone calls you a noob just for not using stricken, then that “someone” is the noob. Not you!
Edits: Note to self: Do not post before the first coffee …
This is a really critical point. Without significant mob pulling, Bane of the Stricken can be rather lackluster. As many have likely seen, I’ve been trying to work out the theory on a build using Vault (Action Shot), and this was something I was considering as well. (As an aside, it is a pain in the butt to simulate Bane of the Stricken triggers vs. Vault activations since they’re on different frame counts.) In my math & simulation, without pulling it worked out in the most favorable situations for the gem (where you are pushing and thus taking the closest to 15:00.000 possible) to about +135% against the Rift Guardian, but only about +11% against general mobs. And, of course, without pulling the general mobs take much more of the overall time. In fact, they took about 10 times as much time in the simulation. So after weighting those bonuses by applicable use-time, Bane of the Stricken only contributed approximately +23% damage.
Pulling mobs allows AOE and Area Damage to each play a more significant role, which means the time dedicated to non-RG mobs is reduced*, allowing for greater relative time for the RG, where Bane of the Stricken shines.
*This assumes less time is spent pulling than is saved by being able to benefit from AOE and Area Damage.
Here is a more comprehensive rundown of the UE gem options (click the arrow to expand on the usage of each gem):
Bane of the Trapped
This is a must-use gem for basically every single UE Multishot setup. It should always be active when using Thrill of the Hunt (except for the first attack unless using the Windchill rune).
Zei's Stone of Vengeance
This is also a must-use gem for basically every UE build. The UE set is a ranged set (hence the 4-piece set bonus requirements), so you should always be using this gem. As a side note, the game rounds up to the nearest 10 yards when calculating damage, so you only need 41 yards to be at max damage range.
Bane of the Powerful
This is a solid third gem choice and will be useful until you reach the edge of your potential (when GRs take 13-15 minutes to complete). This is probably one of the best gems for speed GR clears since it’s basically always active.
Bane of the Stricken
This gem is ONLY useful when soloing for that very best GR clear you are capable of (after a lot of fishing too). Simply put, this gem really only helps with the boss since it requires a lot of attacks on the same target to become effective. As a side note, you can only apply one stricken stack to one enemy per attack; if you’re rapidly attacking a crowd, its anyone’s guess which monster gets the stack. Do not use this gem unless the boss alone takes 3+ minutes without it!
Gogok of Swiftness
This is an alternative gem that can be used in place of the Bane of the Powerful. It recently got a slight buff due to its interaction with the 3-piece Captain Crunch set bonus; the 15% extra CDR will become another 7-8% damage boost (after diminishing returns) which goes nicely with the attack speed. Also, the dodge chance helps evade an attack once in a while which can be useful for keeping the Squirt’s Necklace buff active.
Molten Wildebeast's Gizzard
This is an unorthodox third gem that can be used for speeds and content up until the Bane of the Stricken becomes necessary. The idea with this gem is to stack enough life per second to generate a strong shield to absorb minor stray hits so you can keep the Squirt’s Necklace buff active as much as possible. This also works well with the Pride’s Fall buff too.
Boon of the Hoarder
This gem is only for speed farming outside of GRs. You can use this gem along with an Avarice Band and Goldwrap for essentially an invincible build as long as you keep picking up gold (which is very easy with the gem and ring).
*: while you can use Stricken in a group, you shouldn’t be the rift guardian killer as UE Multishot (have someone switch to Shadow Impale).
Edit: I didn’t consider the Wreath of Lightning, but I guess you can add it for speed builds but the extra movement speed gets a bit too much if you already have around +200% movement with: Paragon + Boon of the Hoarder + Warzechian Armguards + Tactical Advantage + Dimensional Speed (destruction bonus).
No love for Taeguk Iria? Ive been running Taeguk, Zei’s and Gizzard all season on my strafe / UE multi. Never pushed beyond GR95 with it - although easily could do much higher, but its my farming char. You can gey 2-3 Multia off without losing Taeguk buff.
With Krelms in the cube (or Goldwrap / boon in place of Gizzard), Warzechians and speed skills it is insanely fast and more than enough for T16 pubs. As fast as the fasteat monk or wiz.
Since Taeguk requires using either Rapid Fire or Strafe, it isn’t really useful in a Multishot build. Also, those skills are not buffed by the UE6 bonus so they essentially do no damage. While it is possible to intersperse little Strafe volleys between Multishots, it is rather cumbersome and the gem doesn’t offer much compared to a simpler option such as Bane of the Powerful (and you can use that 6th skill slot for something else instead of Strafe).
No less clumbersome than vault / multi. It’s not a build I have pushed with, but for farming i do prefer it. My latency has issues with vault very often, yet none with the extreme speed gifted by this.
My strafe (key 3) is held down continuosly so unless I stop to pick up some items, fire a few multishot volleys or need to trigger Focus/Restraint or Wraps then strafe is always on. With 2 multishot volleys it never drops Taeguk bonus, 3 is I think is possible but typically I play with 150ms latency so usually limit to 2 unless i have a speed shrine. Multishot is on right mouse, Evasive Fire on left mouse.
Smoke Screen-displacement (key 2) provides a 100% movement boost for 1 second with 1.5s cooldown and triggers Tactical Advantage for more movement speed. Generally for Bounty I just run with Krelms in cube which pairs well with Gizzard, and just swapping in Wraps is sufficient for the bounty bosses.
Throw Prides Fall in the cube, switch to Vengeance - Dark Heart with Wraps and you are around 1Billion toughness for higher GR.
Trapped + Zei’s + Gogok is so fun to play , but it’s too bad it doesn’t have what it takes for real high solo pushing . Just nothing there for dealing good damage to RG when you get to higher pushing . It’s great up until you get to RG . Seems to me that the only way to get higher on pushing GR’s is to use well leveled Striken along with Trapped and Zei’s . Nothing compares to that combo when it comes to pushing high GR’s . Other than continuing to work on Paragons and better gear and gem upgrades . So far I have done a 115 with my UE6/CC3 DH , and that was pretty tuff , even with my Paragon levels . Haven’t tried Gizzard yet , but gonna give that a try after I get it leveled up . Main thing to concentrate on is Paragon progession and striving for gear and gem improvements . And of course play style improvements as well .
I’m a little late to this party, but I had a different take on it.
Season 19 now. I started 10 days late and am running a No Set DH (my favorite) build with Legacy of Dreams to clear all the goals so I can set up a different character for the set bonus and then watch all the fireworks as everything gets triggered when I transmogrify a single item. In this scenario different gems work WITHOUT set bonuses.
Three days in I’m P175 and running T8. I’m leveling up the LDreams and added Zei’s because of my distant play style and Toxin because it triggers on every hit. I use Rapid Fire almost exclusively because it is powerful, can run for almost a minute before needing a recharge, and has amazing range. I kill Bosses off the screen watching their life drizzle down even though I can’t see them.
Here’s a breakdown of what I am using with an Attack Speed of 1.84.
Legacy of Dreams L26 - 101.25% x 15 (11 legendaries + 2 ancients) - 1,518.75% / hit
Zei’s L25 - 6% x 10 yds. Most of my shots are at 40+ yds = 24%
Toxin L24 - 3,200% WD / 10 seconds = 320% per second.
All told this gives me:
1,518.75 + 24 = 1,542.75 / hit x 1.84 AS = 2,838.66% + 320% = 3,158.66% / minute.
Earlier I ran with Bane of the Powerful, but Zei’s has now surpassed it for my playstyle.
Different playstyle, game levels, gear set ups, and luck of the draw lead to different gems at different times. No perfect fit for everyone.
People here is talking about endgame related things, T8 with 175 is super early game.
Early game almost every single thing works, unlike when you are pushing, in your post you said you were using a ranged rapid fire build with zei + toxin, this build is not optimal, rapid fire is a melee build, if you try something like ranged rapid fire at high grifts it don’t work.
Also toxin gem it’s just bad, the only niche that gem has is the 10% debuff in Zdps setups.
We do generally focus more on mid/end game gearing in the forum. But there is nothing wrong with adding ideas for early game play. I’ll often start a season solo just so I can run different things that wouldn’t work so well in a group looking to finish things quickly.
When you’ve only done a few GR’s and have a limited selection of gems, which ones are best before they are leveled up to 25? Is it even worth spending the mats to roll a socket on a low level piece of jewelry early game?
These are q’s that some might find worthwhile reading.
