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a market is dictated by supply and demand, scarcity and the likes.
little example: few people will even pick up magic sorc orbs, even though it can be a +6ench orb
or magical paladin shields, even though they could be jewellers of deflection (with high resistances that kicks exile and herald of zakarum on all non caster builds)
with other items it depends on the group of people you are trading with.
are pvp players around (and what lvl are we talking about 9, 29-49 ffa?)
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I’m not sure it’s feasible for Blizzard to keep up with the supply and demand market of trades to be able to provide values for things in semi real time without having 100% of trades go through an AH or similar to let them track what is being traded for what, and that would seem to be pretty far out of scope for D2:R.
I like the idea of introducing chat functionality similar to D3 with access to the channels, communities and clan chats while in game. That seems more likely to be something they could do as part of being on modern battle.net.
Regarding players taking the place of bots on runs, I think a lot of us are hoping that with bots reduced/eliminated we go back to having runs populated by people. Back in the day it was common to have Baal, Trist, Tomb, cow, bloody runs etc with 8 real players, (obviously some runs were nerfed and fell out of favor over the years).
I played a lot of D2 from 2000 until about 2010 or so and just recently came back a few months ago. Back in the day we didn’t have bots waiting in town to open the cow level, give you all the wps and enchant you, and we did just fine. I actually did have a ~lvl 50ish sorc with insight prayer merc, and maxed enchant, decent damage fireball, Tele, etc that I kept in normal difficulty so I could view normal games, and would use her to help run friends through the leveling areas in public games. Back then it was more common for a high level character to just run people through while they leached, so often it surprised people what enchant+meditation+prayer would let them do, and they’d get more xp from actually killing things.
I expect with bots less of a factor game play will go back more similar to how I remember it, with there still being public runs and helpful people, but they’re actually real people, and helping for the fun of it vs advertising.
I also hope that if D2R is popular enough, there will be enough players to support full public games. These days on battle.net it seems rare since there’s so many bot led games that what little playerbase is left gets spread thin in the runs.
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I do think a list or bot or something with some idea of current trade prices would really help new players a lot, and even me. Its hard to know what things go for without looking at 10 year old lists on old patches.
Maybe it could change on the fly based on what actually trades, but might be too much work. Maybe a list users just maintain, but accessible somewhere officially.
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Do anyother games have this trade bot feature? Seems like a remake request. Im not sure ive ever seen a game that tells you what an item is worth via trade. Does D3 do that?
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they have this, its called lod ladder trading channel, not used atm because games empty but when d2r comes out it will be packed with 1000’s of people like it used to be back in the day
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Current D3 doesn’t really have trading (you have a 2 hr window to trade items that drop with people who were in the same game when it dropped, otherwise any item worth using in the end game is bound to your account). In my experience so much of the end game loot is BoA and the drop rates are so high, that items don’t really have much in the way of trade value.
Vanilla D3 had an Auction House that could use in game gold or real money. That would give you an idea of item value since you’d be able to easily see a large portion of the market while browsing items, and see what they were listing for, but since it was based on a currency (either real money or in game gold) it didn’t really help with item to item value like ended up being a thing in D2.
I can see why someway to look up value and feel like a trade was fair would be desirable, but I just don’t see how it’s feasible for something like D2R.
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Yeah i can definitely understand why someone would want to know the value. Maybe if they show the drop rate of the item when you hover over it. I dont see bad trades being that big of a problem to begin with tho. Think its more of a lack of people to trade with problem.
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Just make it like Path of Exile trade… Its very easy and if they are going to go with in-game trading makes the most sense Imo - as long as the bots are not around…
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the last big item change was in 2003, no new items introduced since then
the only real change in terms of market, was the rune drop chance upgrade in ~2010 or so with 1.12 (or was it 1.13) which made higher runs a little more common.
the prices stayed the same for much stuff /only changed because less people play the game.
[quote=“insidious-1502, post:3, topic:30199”]
Back in the day it was common to have Baal, Trist, Tomb, cow, bloody runs etc with 8 real players, (obviously some runs were nerfed and fell out of favor over the years).
the day we didn’t have bots waiting in town to open the cow level, give you all the wps and enchant you, and we did just fine.[/quote]
I played online from ~2003 to 2010 or so, and the baal bots, the tristram bots etc were pretty common back then, too
until somebody did UT levelling, or you got somebody who gave you a classic rush, because it was faster
especially because you could not restat or reskill your builds, and nobody wanted to play the same ignorable early to midgame that diablo was with say, the 3rd or 4th meteorb sorc that ladder
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Or you could, you know, just do what many others do and legitimately play the game. I mean, probably at least 1/5 of the player base plays single player so (and I don’t blame them, I’ve been enjoying PlugY life; too many bots on ladder.)
I am not for any measures to make the game easier or to “replace bots”, that’s one of the biggest selling points of a remaster is that we presumably won’t have to live with bots for a while. And you are lobbying for a game design change to replace them 
I like your first point best. #2, I don’t think it’s really Blizzard’s responsibility to make sure that its players aren’t making bad trades. They could do #2 if they wanted to and it would probably be cool. Though some of the other forums already have or had that kind of thing as well as having a plethora of builds stickied and compiled, admittedly half of their links are broken now lol.
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Ive played D2 for 20 years since the day that it dropped. The only thing that worries me is the availability of Runes needed for end game runewords… Ive always played HC and usually in a solo game so finding runes was even more frustrating. Of course u could trade for duped runes (they had to be - too many ENigmas were on ladder games). Im wondering if the new Bnet is going to really limit the number of runes available and make end game builds for D2 hard to complete without them…
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Pretty much the same background here, I would say while finding some of the runes is frustrating (so is finding tc 87 set/uniques) but I wouldn’t change them. 2 guls is a vex and eventually you will find either another vex or something to trade for an ohm. Besides that you may want a Lo or Jah, Ber and they should be rare finds.
I’ve played many seasons getting to the low 90s without a high rune dropping, and some seasons they did drop. I’m not upset I didn’t get an ohm the season before last, I could have been luckier or played more. Neither did I have a Lo rune. I had about 7-8 ists and mals and a gul though. If bots weren’t around I may have gone ahead and traded my way up to high runes easily enough (in a legit economy).
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Yea - I know that feeling - found a lot of high runes but ONLY ONCE saw a ZOD drop in 20 years - and didnt get it . Wasnt mad as a friend of mine got it and we rolled Baals for a long time after that // But Im really worried that making any higher end rune words in less than 6 months is going to be very difficult now… Im very much more casual now than 20 years ago too …
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a few thousand LK runs will make it work
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Ha, who would want to be friends with botters. Not my scene, I actually remove/avoid people if I find out they cheat. I don’t care for people that wreck my experience.
People talk about D2 being easy, well then why do you need support? I do all of my own stuff on ladder after about norm baals. Pits/AT/magic find to low 90s, ez - hc any class self found.
Sounds like you are rationalizing your own use of jsp and botted goods, personally I chose to give up jsp long ago because I no longer thought trading a ral and 2 p amethysts for an ist was fun.
I like that you don’t use JSP but I think the game is very doable for a group of untwinked players through normal and nightmare for the vast majority of people. I also think there are plenty of ways to advance from there without bots (magic find NM - trav, chaos, Baal, Meph are all good targets that will gear you for hell).
Don’t need bots, exile them from the community since they are destroying my experience is my take. They can hang out with other botters or hopefully get banned for making our experience suffer.
I think one thing that will be really good about D2R is that when cheaters get banned they hopefully won’t be able to buy a set of cdkeys for $2 on D2R and continue back on without it being a big deal.
As for playing with friends, it’s something you can do if you want to (and you can selectively choose friends that have similar D2 values as you). I think many friends would be open to running Chaos or Baal with you in a small group (2+) of legit players that share drops. If you all can’t handle that then run The Pits together (The Pits is one my favorite places, that I can level to the low 90s there without a big exp penalty and have a shot at those high tc items). If you can’t handle The Pits, Countess runs (Cellar alvl of 75, can run this clearing cellar on your way to low 80s) and NM Baal (about lvl 73-75) precedes this in the progression cycle for me. Most of the time I’m somewhere in the low 90s and haven’t done the Ancients yet when I play hc ladder lol (just stop after getting Anya).
Last night HCEL had several norm games (like double the amount on the list pre D2R announcement), an absurd amount of the games on the list were chant bots (like 10 games on the list) - I’ll be happy to not see them anymore. Norm is easy and for later characters it’s easy enough to twink if you’d like.
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PoE has this addon where you can immediately see the market value (roughly) for an item at the moment it drops.
Ngl, it’s extremely convenient.
Not saying it should be in D2R or anything, I just got reminded of that by reading this conversation.
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I have addon in my brain that tell me the fg value of every item that drop because I actually play diablo II.
FG shouldn’t exist…
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