2.6.6 Barbarian Community Buff Proposal

Yeah, definitely not trying to insult you, and glad you could see the humor there.

As for LON vs other sets, what matters is how much of a cumulative set bonus you can get vs the 9750% LON bonus. The individual legendaries don’t really matter.

For instance, if you have a legendary that gives +X% to Whirlwind damage, this is going to give nearly the same bonus to LON, which gives you +9750% damage (to everything), and Wrath of the Wastes, which give you +10000% damage (to WW). If you increased the effectiveness of that legendary 10x, it would still be relatively the same when compared between those two sets.

This is how Free and I concluded that Wastes (6) needed to include Rend in the damage bonus in order for Rend to be viable. Because if you were to just apply a massive Rend bonus to a legendary, enough to make Rend usable with the Wastes set, it would become super-overpowered when used with LON.

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trying for Level 3 he is :laughing:

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I really do not mind people having their opinions. But around 80 percent of his posts, it just don’t make sense… Like, it’s PROVEN, from Blizzards OWN numbers and buggy mechanics, that there is something wrong with Barbarians AND on top of that, Free have written several posts about it… Yet this guy still goes on and on and on about stuff he clearly does not know much about. I’m like… Regretting ever reading it…

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Sadly I think deRp is right. MicroRNA takes both sides of multiple “arguments”, and appears to make the same posts over and over again, and has shown an extreme interest in the forum rankings.

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He just keeps beating a dead horse without any real clean analysis like what Free and Rage have put together. Their math checks out. The “barbs are in the meta” is frankly a bs excuse and feels like a crutch to me for him to continue his arguing…and rack his posting up.

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Agreed. However, you and Rage proposed to buff support items to achieve both intra and inter class parity. For an underperforming barb set/build, the supporting legendary bonus would need to increase to compensate both the within barb disparity and the cross class disparity. As such the support items would end up with huge multipliers. I think in some cases a single items gets a 4000% damage bonus.

This is somewhat similar to what happened with witch doctors. The fetish dart build was bad. They did a 2X buff in Carnevel and huge buff to dagger of darts. This made this build very good; however, no other build saw a benefit.

A global modifier for underperforming classes would benefit all that class’s builds.

Relative to what? The argument against my numbers is that I did not factor in paragon, augments, and legendary gems. Neither did Free and Rage. Our punchline is the same: barbs need a big buff. Why would you believe their numbers and completely dismiss mine. Free said that Prokhan analysis was correct for season 12 which is similar to my season 12 analysis.

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To get to forum trust level 3, the number of posts one makes is largely irrelevant. The most important things are consistency in logging in (at least every other day) and reading 20,000 posts during a 100 day rolling window.

P.S. It is day 32 of the new forum, we are at ~13,800 posts… I hope that no one will claim that I posted these numbers to argue against buffing any class or that I should have taken into consideration the paragon levels of posters for these statistics. :smile:

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Oh come on. We all know you guys will never buff barbarians properly. All this “we are not done” talk is just hot air. Barbs will be screwed until D4 comes out. End of story.

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So, I was also coming up with changes for the Waste set and this is what I got so far.

2 Piece - Whirlwind applies Rend to enemies it hits. (Sort of like U6
4 Piece - 50-60% Damage Reduction while using Whirlwind.
6 Piece - Whirldwind gains the Dust Devils rune. Rend damage is increased by X%.

Lamentation - Gain 8-10% damage reduction for every enemy affected by Rend within 25 yards. (Copy and Pasted from Buff Proposal cause it’s better then what I had)

Skull Grasp - Each instance of Rend applied to an enemy increases the damage of Rend by 100%(Additive).

Ambo’s Pride - Enemies Affected by Rend attack 20% slower, and deal 30% reduced damage.

Oh really?

My reply to 2.6.6 and Barbs: A Measured Response thread

They said (either directly or indirectly) that they don’t want to do something like that, basically for the same reason for why they don’t want that you can use Rend while Whirlwinding without interrupting the Whirlwind.

Having WW apply Rend has been suggested since Wastes came out. :unamused:

Nope. It was my idea. Look here:

http::://wwww.diablo1.com/forums/diablo-3-ideas/index/showthread=?whirlwindideasd3

Ulmaguest December 3 1998 3:23 PM

Hey guyz how about they make a class called Barbarian and it gets a skill called “Whirlwind” which applies “Rend” when you hit stuff after Blizzard gets acquired by another corporation sometime after the year 2012 and they release a mechanically watered down product called Diablo 3?

Proof I came up with it way before any of you.

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Glad to see folks are still checking out the proposal. We’ll be adding some addendums for 2.6.7 and beyond, but the info contained in the proposal won’t change and we won’t be modifying any of the proposed items unless Barbs get some kind of worthwhile update.

Going to touch on a few things:

I’ve never been a fan of this and never will, and though I’ve explained it before, here’s my stance in brief.

Removing the animation from Rend allows you to delete the skill from your bar. It also simplifies gameplay in a bad way–by deleting a skill from active use even if it can provide meaningful damage.

What do you gain by reinforcing the myth that WW is a simple, lazy build? What do you gain by making the game play into more of a “Hold M1” style?

I argue the build, like all builds, is far more interesting when you have choices, when your decisions determine your performance. Do you group more density, then Rend, then stay to WW or find more density? Did you group enough density? How can you maximize Rend damage?

Of course this assumes that, as per the proposal, Rend is addressed via supporting legendaries to deal worthwhile damage and offer meaningful utility, but you see my point: When the use of Rend becomes meaningful, the build becomes more interesting and immersive when you make decisions on its use.

And when Rend is simply auto-cast on hit, all such choice is removed. It’s boring, lazy.

Some folks say they don’t want to stop spinning to Rend, and I would argue that those folks A) have never truly pushed with WW, and B) don’t want to push with WW, because the build only performs well when you do exactly that: scout, Rage Flip, scout, Rage Flip, to cluster screens of density for a brief DPS cycle before you move on, dragging what’s left behind you. It’s already a stop and go build, one where you constantly adjust enemies with Rage Flip, where you’re constantly looking for the best spot on a map to pull density.

Here’s WW gameplay in a nutshell:

WW (scout) --> Spear --> scout --> Spear – DPS cycle

And here’s WW if Rend is powerful enough to be on the bar:

WW (scout) --> Spear --> scout --> Spear – Rend --> DPS cycle

So, for everyone who says they don’t want to stop to Rend, you’re telling me that one extra little step–that one little key press–is make or break? If so, pick a different build. Or just use WW to speed-farm T16.

If Rend dealt meaningful damage and offered meaningful utility, I don’t think most players would complain about having to stop to hit a key every now and then–particularly if it got fixes along the lines we suggested. Remember, our suggestions simplify the build in a good way–by presenting easier to implement choices that require less micromanagement. Our ideas would allow us to drop IP and PoC, and the only cooldown we would have to worry about would be Wrath–which isn’t a concern at all when you’re fighting in density.

So, yeah. TLDR: auto-cast Rend is bad. Case closed.

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Now that 2.6.7 is at the door and we received some changes among the solutions outlined in this post.

Congrats to Free and Rage for bringing this document together. Lets hope more solution ideas can be extracted in future updates.

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Change is good, but over its not much for barb class as a whole. Its time to focus on d4, Lets try not to let these things happen so we don’t have these lengthy posts :):expressionless:

And yet you accomplished nothing.

Barbs are still trash.

WW barbs are trash on fire.

Wiz and Necros are still gods.

Now Crusaders are also gods (but you’ll probably nerf that so only precious Wiz and Necro are gods).

So predictible, boring, and lame.

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We have been waiting years and nothing happens.

WW barb still neglected garbage.

Do you expect us to wait until D5 is announced?

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Yes it is time to have a D4 forum all it’s own so people can speculate, contemplate and moan and groan, for a game that isn’t even in Bata yet. :grin::crazy_face:

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No thanks.

Over the past few years, Acti-Blizz have a terrible track record. Company-wide layoffs. The normalization of Loot Boxes and gambling mechanics in games. Terrible art direction and abhorent corporate responses to the HK protests.

As far as I’m concerned, D4 isn’t worth the hype. It might end up as a very good game, but the current iteration looks like a bland, console-first mess. Won’t bother discussing the game until I play a beta and decide for myself.

And anyway, this is the D3 forum. So keep it on topic, please.

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