I’m not sure if there are any high end WW sin players out there that do PvM, but which is best in a cruel fool claw, Ber or Lo? Obviously a 2 socket claw with both is probably BiS, but such a claw hasn’t come up yet.
Here is a video with some testing. The gear has a balance of highlord’s and gore riders.
https:// youtu.be/4Lu1PGQgKTs
WW Sin aka Ghost is not PvM build, if u want WW just make WW Barb.
Lo is a waste for WW Sin, dmg is just too bad except u have impossible Elite Claws like 40ias fools +4xx% ED Eth self rep and used with Eth Chaos
Generally Ber is better vs Barb and Um vs everything else.
I’m not interested in PvP.
But thanks for your perspective.
Um why would you use Eth Chaos? Last I checked, it has no repair mod on it so… yeah…
Anyways… @bladezero25: Chaos is more for PvP than PvM but if you want to make a Ghost Sin for PvM who am I to stop you. As to what I would pair with Chaos, that’s entirely up to you. For your question regarding Fool’s Claw, I would recommend Zod if you get super lucky with an Ethereal roll without a repair attribute to go with it. Yet if you don’t get an Ethereal Fool’s Claw, then I’d probably roll with Ohm for more Enhanced Damage. Granted, what rune you use is largely based on what attributes you get. A Holy Grail Rare Claw roll would be following:
Note: You can have up to 3 Prefix and 3 Suffix attributes on Rare’s.
Prefix: Fool’s(+49 Max Damage, +1633 to Attack Rating)
Prefix: Cruel(300% Enhanced Damage)
Prefix: Witch-Hunter(+2 Assassin Skills)
Suffix: Restoration(Repairs 1 Durability every 20 seconds)
Suffix: Quickness(40% Increased Attack Speed)
You get that along with it rolling Ethereal and that claw would be priceless. Yet I’d still vouch for Ohm simply because %ED is more raw damage from that Claw. You’ll get Crit’s via Claw Mastery + Highlords + Gores(yielding ~60% overall). Alternatively, Um is also viable given that Chaos has 25% Open Wounds too so stacking up on it can help since Gores has some OW to bring both to 35% and Bleed can be quite impactful.
For PvM, which I also must reiterate kinda sucks for WWsins, CB is always better to stack than DS…CB does wonders for bosses and potentially stone skin/physical immune mobs…
i actually a in the process of making a PvM wwsin it is not a ghost sin but rather relies on crushing blow and chance to hit to do the work.
most of the time you’ll need just angelic jewlery (amu+2x ring) to have 95% chance to hit everything… however uber izzy and uber baal have chilling armor that buff doesn ot get taken away by battle cry from CtA, instead it just sits there providing massive armor class for the mob…
the only way to combat it is fools mod on rare claws:
the dream is:
rare runic talons:
prefixes:
-fools mod +dmg(perlvl) +ar(perlvl)
-cruel mod ( +dmg%)
-mechanic’s mod +2x sox
suffixes:
+40% ias ( this is mandatory on runic talons to reach 4fpa without highlords and LoH)
+9% mana steal ( yes you’ll lack this and string of ears can provide life steal)
the secret to soxing the claw is “BerEth” if you plan on ever doing the ubers the additional 12,5% to mob AC reduction actually works on top of chilling armor ( but with 50% efficiency since baal and izzy as bosses are treated as a elite monster for the purpose of the affix so -25% AC turns into -12.5% for elites rares and bosses… the goal is to hit the mosters as often as possible and have crushing blow as high as possible so gface, duress, goblin toe, and a Ber in the mainhand.
forgo dubmb traps and blade shield… traps pause ww and blade shield chews main hand dura on top of ww while providing very little to damage output… beter invest in claw mastery; weapon block;fade;venom venom is good for trash only and gets applied 2,5x times qucker than it’s duration on 4fpa ww.
as for chaos repair costs i already covered it in another thread…
long story short chaos claws repair prices can be cut down astronomously if you make it in a non-superior base that has no skill bonuses. such claw would take ~13,6k gold to repair from 0 to 69 (in case of runic talons the only viable chaos base in my opinion). on the other hand perfect superior ( +15%dmg +15%dura) runic talons with 3x3 skills costs 3,2mil (kk) to repair from 0 to 69, it’s a difference between steady maintained play and instantly going broke.
Crushing for PvE, also just use a Fury claw for PvE.
instead of sacrificing Ber or JahGul simply make AmnTir strength/steel don’t remember the correct name that runeword gives 25% crushing blow with gface duress and goblin toe you’re sitting at 100% CB and 58% open wounds (33% duress and 25% from Chaos)
Hitting 100% crushing blow with a skill like WW doesn’t really matter. Having high crushing blow is good, obviously, but you’ll have high crushing blow with guillames and gorefoot/goblintoe. Combined with any crushing blow on your merc, you won’t notice the difference between having 50% or 100% on your WW. What fury provides is more damage, crushing blow only does so much to bosses, and open wounds. The most damning thing about killing enemies can be their own regen, which open wounds negates. Fury also has ignore defense and prevent heal, which is nice for regular enemies, and comes with deadly strike, which is more damage.
Using a rare claw over fury, especially if and Um or Ber is going to be added to it, is reserved for pie in the sky mods. This typically includes the ethereal and repairs self mods combined with bonus max damage and a very high ed roll. Even then, on the WW build, you wouldn’t use this for PvE because of how quickly it shreds through durability. Using the standard chaos+fury combo requires enough returns to town to repair as it is. Waiting on your claw to repair itself after just a few runs is colossal downtime.
Talking about WWsin at all outside of PvP leads to further discussions on fundamental problems with D2 repair costs and durability drain. There’s a reason that 100% of farming builds for melee utilize a phase blade, and it’s not just that Grief exists. If Grief couldn’t go into a phase blade, they’d still be hyped over BotD or Death or Oath for the indestructible mods. All melee builds have durability and repair cost issues plaguing them into using only indestructible weapons, and Grief is a godsend to solve that problem.
Not if you duraglitch the rare claw
i already described the process of doing this stunt, however if you succed in duraglitching the main hand the repair costs become managable…
in the end duraglitched claw does not loose durabilty due to a glitch and the Chaos claw if made in non-superior no +single skills base literally costs pennies to repair…
as literally anyone can afford 13,6k gold every two baalruns ( those include killing anything on the way. if zipping through with enigma to baalwaves it’s goig to last waay longer) and worldstone chamber contains a lot of gold…
on the other hand 13,6k is such a small amount that doing terror zones is perfectly doable…
so i don’t see your point with the repair costs…
the repair costs are high only for stupid ppl that pick highest end claw for their Chaos runeword, stick it into their main hand and use blade shield on top.
those are literally 3 dumbest things one could do.
and if you have 95% cth which i diubt one does since majority just runs hachethands with highlords and LoH to get to the highest breakpont forgoing angelic jewlery trifecta, which is a must to relably hit targets, then no wonder you don’t see a difference between 50% and 100% CB, since you miss target like half of the time how can you reliably CB it to death… truth is if you have 100% CB and sufficient CtH you only need a single pass through any act 5 mob to kill it ( excluding elites) that’s how powerfull it is 6,25APS does the trick… it’s hard to calculate but it’s equaly easy to kill large hp moster and low hp moster with such setup every four seconds you do 25 hits and every hit you do lowers the current mob life by 25% cause 100%CB is guaranteed CB on hit), that literaly causes monsters to melt regardless if it’s an imp or a siege beast.
Thanks for this Feedback guys. I would add to anyone interesting in WWsin for PvM that it is extremely fun and I might even argue that it is faster than traps on P1 TZ. I also don’t suffer from any problems with repairs and durability even with blade shield. I just make sure my main hand has no trap skills on it.
You’re not going to duraglitch an eth claw. Again, from that last thread, relying on glitches to solve fundamental problems with the game isn’t a good thing. Do what helps the most, even if it means using a glitch, but represent the situation honestly. The same goes with saying to use sub optimal bases for RWs on the basis of saving gold, or rather that repair cost scaling causes those items to be obnoxious to maintain. It’s not good. Both stand as glaring evidence that both repair cost scaling, for +skill and superior items, and durability drain for melee weapons needs to be changed.
It’s not just assassins either, it’s all melee. Every melee build deals with this issue, but the WWsin doesn’t have the Grief phase blade option. They don’t have any of the indestructible RW mod options. WWsin is also my favorite melee build to play, but its unpopularity goes hand in hand with the constant durability maintenance. It’s the first thing players cite when talking about why they don’t play it. It makes the game obnoxious to play.
it’s not obnoxious it’s just a thing to look out for… if somebody is stupid enaugh to make chaos in expensive base and on top holds it in main hand and uses blade shield to “spice up the damage” is not worthy to be sorrowed about… as i said literally the dumbest thing one could do…
blade shield more than doubles the rate at which mainhand durability goes down. blade shield ticks once every 0.2 seconds and each tick is checked for mainhand durability loss, so simply by wwing over a group of mobs blade shield gets tested for dura on all the mobs it comes to contact with at every 0.2 second while providing little more than 75% weapon damage per tick… this is as wastefull as the game gets…
I also like sin ww gameplay style, especially that sin is a lot more tankier than the barb is. despite of having like 1/2 of the life he has her effective hp is a lot higher than barb’s is…
mainly due to how weapon block behaves that it blocks most of the spells, also blocks when mooving and ww is technically standing still so basically when you invest in weapon block plus get shadow discipline skiller charms, +3 to weapon block on the rare claw, and battle command cry you reach weapon block lvl 36 that’s exactly 62% chance to block anything except physical arrow damage or quillrat projectiles and you get fade with physical damage reduction curse reduction and bonus resists. that’s overpowered…
not to mention that when you’re under fade and amp is casted on you… not only the duration gets reduced by the curse resistance but also the amplified damage gets reduced by curse reduction % and physical damage reduction gets added on top, so with decent gear one may actually still have positive damage resistance value even when amped.
such level of overpower should come with a little drawback… and i’m happy to repair my runic talons, especially that they come with 69 durability native… you know how much durability a phase blade would have if not indestructible?! “20” yes phase blade would have 20 durability if not indestructible… that wouldn’t literally last 5 minutes on a ww barb. however 69 durability the runic talons have is almost 3,5x that. Given this you certainly have time to spin around for over 15 minutes…
and yes the rare mainhand claws don’t have to be eth they just need to roll the proper stats, exactly the ones i mentioned in one of my previous posts. such runic talons need increased chance to hit crushing blow and attack speed to reach max breakpoint, and repair mod is needed to glitch the durability with cube repair recepie hence why rare mainhand must not be eth which further simplifies the way to aquire it, you simply go to nightmare at certain character level and start gambling for it. rares are ~1/10. 6 pskull cube recepie may get you there yet 6pskulls are waay harder to get than a measly amout of gold.
This is where the logic completely disassembles. It is not “stupid” to spend HRs in a strong base. If how weapon durability works makes it “stupid”, then the way that weapon durability works is “stupid”.
sorry for necroing but it would appear i’ve found the answer to all hardest wwsin issues:
-what claw to pick
-an relatively easy & cheap way to obtain it
-heavily limits the dura chewing even with blade shield on
-maintains 4fpa for ww
-frees up jewlery slots from angelics trifecta combo, due to functionality used…
So let’s go to meat & potatoes shall we?
the claw i picked for this purpose is obviously Runic Talons because of -30 weapon speed modifier… this claw is the only one that can reach 4fpa with reasonable amount of IAS…
i recommend to use both as chaos base and in the cubing described below:
there are two cube recepies for this it is up to you which one you’ll pick, the possible affix outcomes are the same due to Runic Talons having quality Level of 81 which means even at item level 30 or 25 which the outputs are qlvl 81 item still has affix level of over 60…
the cube recepies i’m talkig about are 3chipped gems + magic item=25ilvl magic item of the same type with sockets or 3x flawless gems + magic item =30ilvl magic item of the same type with sockets.
it randomly rolls 1 o 2 sockets…
so waht we need:
basically: Fool’s Runic Talon of Ages with two sockets
that’s indestructible Runic Talons wit fool’s mod a.k.a maxdmg/AR based on clvl socket with either two shales or shael + scinilating jool of fervor a.k.a 15%@res/15%ias jool. +skill rolls are optional though if you’re hell bent on rolling them you sould since the item is indestructible it won’t cost a dime to repair and won’t get damaged.
now as to why fool’s mod:
it’s the only one affix with decent amount of attack rating…
the basic idea behind this build is to have chaos runeword mearely as ww skill provider a stat stick that does not connect with the enemy ( chaos must have low cth while main hand - the fool’s Runic Talons of ages must have high cth)
the reason behind it is ww attacks with both weapons at the same time yet checks cth for each one individually it does not swap weapons… so we want the fools claw main hand to hit as often as possible and proc crushing blow ( because it is indestructible) and chaos claw to hit as least as possible because it isn’t indestructible… the less chaos connects with the targets the longer it will last because dura loss is checked only on succesfull hits and not on misses, so the less chaos hits the less dura it loses, and the longer it lasts… for this I’m going dispose of angelic trifecta combo and solely rely on the fool’s talon to do the damage. tthe fool’s weapon damage isn’t superb, it relies mostly on constantly proccing crusning blow from gface duress and goblin toes total 75% with 4fpa it’s enaugh to melt stuff… angelics combo can easily be replaced with dual wisps for 40% lightning absorb and some ammy with mana leech to complement the build.
if you forgo the extra +skills than such claw is relatively easy to cube… you simply need to roll fool’s and indestructible and 50% of the case you’re already there since the only thing thar’s still random is the number of sockets 1 or 2 however neither fool’s mod nor indestructible mod have any further roll checks… maxroll says it’s 1/44’606 rolls to get such item, so roughly an equivalent of gambling ~20 rares, and given one can scam newbs for pelthora chipped gems by offering few perfs quickly assembled form few flawlesses it shouldn’t be too hard…
sorry for the necro and wall of text, however i thought that it has to be finally said…
Yeah So I’ve mostly made my ww sin on online..
so all in all:
runic talons are yuck.. you want to have a heavy hard hitter in your main hand and the onnly decent damage with decent dura that can have 3os is scissor suwayyah, though i haven’t found one good enaugh yet, so i’m sticking to my runic talons chaos, as that’s what i’ve found that is cheap to maintain..
i recently traded for a eth 418%ED 2xxAR 2os war fist with some other meaningless affixes..
i socketed with zod and an ohm. to not actually lose it and to reach 468ED% if it had erep i would dual ohm it for maximum damage..
An eth 550%ED (300%ED+150ED/250AR +2x50%ohm) war fist could go with over 500 weapon damage in the upper fork. mine actually reached 448..
Lo is not needed as gface and gores give you summed 30% deadly strike, already Crushing blow is 50% with theese two, open wounds 35% from chaos and gores is enaugh on it’s own..
With Decent ED% on eth war fist one can clearly go for blade shield, forti + laying of hands, and you have sort of a third hard hitting hand in the form of passive aoe hammering every 0.4 sec in a small radius..
war fist itself does not need weapon ias. 1 hard point burst of speed plus shadow skillers torch anni and battle command from cta make you sit at lvl 13 BoS you’ll get 20% offweapon ias from laying of hands you’l meet the 4FPA breakpoint on BoS lvl 8, already so anything higher only keeps you from adding in more ias in case of a slow FRW from BoS an gores also let you catch up mobs on the run while spinning..
i decided to keep the angelics jewelery trifecta to have decent chance to hit and skipped the weaksauce ravenfrost + highlords, instead gface is chamed for the cannot be frozen. the AR benefit is to great from the angelics to let it pass for ravenfrost.. and fools mod isn’t all that overpowered when compared to extra ED% you could get from other damage affix from that affixgroup.. visio mod on a circlet isn’t all that mandatory when you use angelics and pump the already maxed claw mastery with shadow skillers ( when going for ubers just get an enchant merc with decent + skill gear, prebuff him with battle command, and go find some mobs.. with all that you should have the enchant buff up for 20+ minutes)
take a look:
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/n3v8z000
one thing important though going from 1 hardpoint in weapon block to full 20 hardpoints is a mere difference between 53% and 61% blockchance, however most of the time this means survival where the rest would die ( well mostly)
souls even when bunched they drop their lightnings at once mostly and lightning is tick damage over several hits, so fighting them is sort of a gamble since you will roll dice on the blocking of their lightning (as weapon block can do that) times the lightning(a.k.a number of gloams) multiplied by the number of hits their current lightning skill level has.. that’s an awfull lots of rolls to be made and on average you block 61% of the damage since 61% of the damage checks is blocked, though in reality you can block all of them taking no damage or get insta killed due to beeing hit by all of them and all of those rolled as a crit.. i must admit 61% block chance acts pretty good with the added flat magic damage reduction from string of ears. Top version of this build has only 35% all ress ( except fire which is 75%), and since my online gar is worse i only sit at 26%, and i still survive major portion of the gloam meetings aproxximately 9 out of 10 cases i just obliterate them without signifcant life loss, and yes that’s 26% positive lightning res on hell no fade and 61% weapon block chance..
Sounds awful. Gonna try it and compare it to other options but non indestructible chaos is the biggest issue anyway
now m8 don’t get me wrong, there is no such thing as indestructible chaos rw..
the only thing you can do is to cut down on it’s repair costs.. this is done two ways:
If i didn’t play on a potato i’d probably do a showcase video of how it plays out. though if there’s going to be interest i’ll look for a video grabber that’s laying somewhere in my mess, and hook up my second gpu output with it, and put the stream to obs on my laptop, prep a video from it and put it on yt..
You should differentiate.
chaos is a design flaw because not indestructible
your suggestions from the previous post to use BoS over fade etc and using ohm instead of better options feels very off. Luckily offline you can just mod the indestructible mod on chaos and try to have fun with the build although it’s still a worse build than ww Barb or any of the trap options
You sure about that second statement?
damage wise double grief is probably stronger than a top tier eth war fist. though survivability wise i’d go all for the assa.. and when i have time i do play wwsin PvM, my eth war fist is only 468%ED +2os no erep, so i had to use a zod and only one ohm. frankly there’s no better rune for warfist than ohm, one does not need um as open wounds is in chaos, Lo is overrated and gface+gores already give you 30% Deadly Strike. stacking Crushing Blow is meaningless for most mobs assa already has 50% from gface and gores and most things die in just 1 or 2 plows anyways..
ok but as for wwbarb vs ww assa.. the real benefit of running assa is survi my barb has 4100 life post bo with 2x3 bostick buff and has roughly 75% lightning res on hell and no block chance of any kind, and gets 1 shoted by souls, on the other hand wwsin with max weapon block sits at 61% block.. this counts for all physical and missle elemental damage.. and 9out of 10 times when i meet souls i am victorious and my ww sin only has like 26 lightning res above zero, she does not need to have keys in inventory to open locked chests, and assa is lvl 87 and barb is lvl 88, so not much difference.. Hell TZ baalrun barb gets wrecked assa mostly is victorious. except weapons pretty much the same gear on both of them.
Maybe pure ghost sin does not deliver as much damage as wwbarb, though if you go hybrid sin with blade shield, and death sentry, and yes i went for maxing death sentry corpse explosion AoE maxing so 20 points into death sentry instead of lighnting sentry. now i plant one death sentry, mow down one mob in the group, and the rest is pretty much death sentry wasting them away before i manage to finish them off, or if it’s a elite pack CE softens them down so the fight is a breeze.. Blade shield scales of of weapon damage as well so having a merely 209%ED Fury rw or 340%ED second chaos in best case scenario on non etherial weapons is far worse than eth war fist with OP %ED as it takes the final damage fork on the weapon then multiplies it by offweapon %ED and other sources to give a AoE tick every 0.4 sec
to make it more visoble grief does up to 435 in the upper fork times 0.75 ( the amount blate shield takes into consideration) ad it’s roughly above 300, while perfect eth war fist has 533 in the uper damage fork times 0.75 and you have something around 400 times off weapon %ED and other sources, hence blade shield hits harder with perfect eth war fist than grief..
and now despite the fact chaos is not indestructible it’s not a design flaw, as i said repair costs are managable, you can’t just let all builds run wild without equipment repairs, why phase blades are indestructible is by design flaw because crystal swords and dimensional blades have hilarious memic durability values that would make them last 2 minutes in battle max, to prevent that for elite end game version of the sword blizz had to do something, and the best they’ve came up with was let’s make’em indestructible, we’ll slap some hilarious stat requirements to scare ppl off and call it a day..