ww barb is almost a trash tier build now for pvm. please make it so that ww barb can proc curses.
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No thanks. WW proccing curses means it would proc other skills like Glacial Spike which would render my eDeath CS useless for my barb.
Making WW proc would be a janky way to buff it in my opinion, Iâd rather they increase the ED% per level to 6% (that way itâs not weaker than pre-2.4.3 WW until level 40) and allow non-sword 2H weapons to reach 4 frame again, and also to reduce the IAS needed for 2H weapons. 174 IAS to reach 5 frame on a 20 WSM base is ludicrous.
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2 handers need to be able to hit the 4 frame breakpoint again
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it doesnt mean that at all⌠what kind of a second rate trash tier dev would not be able to blacklist specific problematic spells? oh, well a different company could do it right.
itâs pretty dumb how weak melee is versus ranged in this game. thereâs literally no benefit to playing melee. most RPGs and games would compensate by making melee tankier to match lore, but nope, ranged are just as tanky if not safer in this game. it makes no DnD sense whatsoever.
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Use a frenzy/WW combo. Keep them frenzy stacks up, it will make him supafast⌠And give you a way to proc. 
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The movement speed from frenzy is bad with whirlwind. You donât want to move too quickly while in whirlwind because you move out of range too fast and have to double back which is mana intensive.
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Well I frenzy a larger part of the time anyway⌠I only WW when I need to get out of the center of an enemy pack or thereâs a nice line of monsters to zip up and down.
This x1E6
So now youâre suggesting to make it even more complicated and have SOME on hit effects work and SOME not? Seems like that makes it even harder to understand whatâs going on for newer players. I know the OP title was just âcursesâ so maybe youâre suggesting thatâs where we draw the line, curses are okay and other spells arenât? I donât believe Iâve ever seen that distinction made for on hit effects for D2 before, so still is adding complication.
Iâd rather they just buff the damage and AR as needed and get the 2H weapons back to being a reasonable amount of IAS for 4 FPA.
That we agree on. Pre 1.10 wasnât as bad, I think the team just lost the opportunity to fine-tune all the big 1.10 changes when D2 reached maintenance mode.
I know some people have played this way, but it always seems like it would be so clunky. Plus as Mujaki notes, movement speed tends to reduce WW hits, so thereâs a downside there. Plus now youâre investing in yet another skill tree, so losing points in BO or mastery or FIâŚ
Sounds like you use WW to augment Frenzy as more of a utility to escape bad situations, which is totally reasonable, but your first post came off as using it more as a way to buff a WW main build, and IMO WW needs help.
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Youâre correct, I use WW as an escape method for the most part. I could use leap, but WW is more fun.
I think WW needs to have a small aoe âslashâ damage added to it along with its main hit. Perhaps a range based on the weapon(s) average rangeadder#, hitting for around 5%-10% of the main hit damage which âpulsesâ every time the main hit occurs. Or it could be something like +0.3% slash damage per WW level. It could also be restricted to a 180 degree arc in the direction of the WW attack. I mean, itâs a whirling tornado of weapons, surely some slashing is going to happen outside of the main hits. A low proc% on the main hit would be acceptable.
The only procs that would have negative effects are ones with cast delay, such as whatâs on Hellmouth. Glacial Spike would respond no differently than it does with any other melee attack, which would make Death even more effective when using WW.
I donât understand how you come up with WW being janky while casting curses and running through cursed monsters? Procs on strikes and attacks occur simultaneously.
Whirlwind is the most damage dealing barb skill, it is the most effective at clearing mobs id played right, but it has nothing on the clearing speed of all other characters except Druid.
I agree with the 4 frames, though I donât understand âframesâ, that info is not in my wheelhouse and I trust your tech knowledge. But when it comes to WW I know a thing or two, enabling proc effects is the key to greatly elevating the barb clearing speed. Eg., simply put a Gavel of Pain on switch and cast amp on Lister and friends. Do it then imagine that occurring through the entire game with a 5% proc. Your proposed damage buff will not do that kind of damage, not even close.
Special Procedures on Whirlwind, please!
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The issue (for me at least, and I think DarkMaster as well) is that if you want to hork, and glacial spike is proccing, youâre going to shatter a lot more corpses that you can no longer use to hork.
I donât think the concern is regarding buffing WW too much, as you said itâs still pretty far behind meta builds even with BiS gear. I think the concern is proccing things you may not want, that would reduce corpses that could be used for horking.
Thematically Iâd also rather have the damage be from my weapon rather than hitting this as a vehicle for casting spells. When I wanna cast spells Iâd just play a caster, but if thatâs the only way we can add damage to WW then I guess Iâd take it.
I think rescalling the damage and AR buff it gives to improve damage output, while fixing the IAS issues they caused is all it really needs.
Frames is just another way to say attack speed. D2 runs on frames (per second). OG D2 ran on 30 fps and tied all animations to the frames. I think D2R may now sync to 60 fps but I admit I donât have great knowledge in that area. The jist of it is though, that because certain actions take discrete amount of frames that are syncâd with that base frame rate, the game is actually thinking about attack rate in terms of number of frames per attack (FPA). So WW BPs are such that a certain amount of IAS gets you to a certain BP which controls how many hit checks you do. That is tied to frames, so if youâre attacking at 4 frames, you have only 4 frames in between hit checks. If you are at 5 frames, you have 5 frames between hit checks. if the game engine is running calculations at 30 fps, and you are hitting at 5 frames per attack, then you attack 6 times a second. If youâre hitting at 4 frames, you attack 7.5 times a second.
For curses like amp, decrep, or LT and spells like static, I agree proccing would be awesome. Itâs things like Glacial Spike providing undesired freezing that Iâm worried about. Coupled with the fact that I am worried proccing things on hit may not be enough to get WW on par with meta, I get worried Devs will blindly do it and it wonât be enough/right, and then weâll be stuck with it. Case in point, they âfixedâ the WW bug where it wasnât doing the first hit check, by changing the WW BPs and allowing off weapon IAS, making it now susceptible to chill and decrep speed debuffs, and made it impossible for 2H to get to 4 FPA like it used to be. Thatâs the type of thing I fear happening again.
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Instead of making WW proc with all those things, wish blizz would instead find a way to change the way certain items proc regarding their specific âon hitâ terms to allow WW to proc items like Atmaâs⌠you would think since something like Death is on âattackâ and Atmaâs is on âstrikingâ that this differentiation allows certain things to proc with WW, but hilariously none of them do 
Youâre right, and that is concerning. However, GS has a 1 in 4 chance to cast, and that is just on attack, not striking. Itâs damage and area of affect is nowhere near that of the actual skill, even without synergies. Also, it will only cast once with a single attack of WW, where as on striking in a mob each WW hit has a % chance. Using Death on a Frenzy barb results in a low number of monsters turning into water, but the amp proc from Atmaâs doubles kill speed, which significantly increases clearing speeds, providing more monsters to hork in a less period of time. WW + Amp using BiS is truly a sight to behold. If youâre good at WW, Amped Lister and friends go down in 2-4 seconds in an 8 player game. An alternative would be not allowing âon attackâ to proc.
I look at it this way: every caster has easy access to game changing BC, BO and auras, making them that much more powerful than WW barbs.
It might not be on par, but it will be much closer and create many more metas.
Rolling this back and adding proc, âon attackâ wouldnât proc, because it requires that first hit.
Its good with a max strength build. Just 1-shot everything.
whirlwind does not proc any âon attackâ, âon strikingâ, or âon killâ effects.
http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/barbarian-combatskills.shtml#whirlwind
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Hell Iâd argue giving WW a % of Berserks magic damage would be better than procing curses.
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