WindForce or EagleHorn?

General Discussion
22

My comments are based on actual DPS numbers or in other words average damage per second. Being average damage, this takes into account the low min damage that all of these bows have as well as attack speed.

My comments are also based on optimally built bowazon builds which also include top-tier max damage charms and maxed out dexterity and also assume damage numbers for going into the new patch 2.4.

There’s a lot of contexts this can be looked at which will widens or narrows that DPS gap between Goldstrike/Eaglehorn and Windforce.

% Damage vs X

Goldstrike will perform better in certain areas (ie, Chaos Sanctuary) than other areas (ie, Cows) with its potential +200% damage vs demons/undead, but this bonus is no where near as good as it sounds.

With an optimal build setup, this is a 15% damage boost, which is not trivial but it’s by no means a game changer either.

Obviously with more budget gear and more stat points weighted towards vitality, this number will be higher.

Patch 2.4 makes this damage mod slightly weaker.

Damage per level vs roll variations

Goldstrike’s damage doesn’t have per level damage scaling, but even then Windforce has a lot more damage than a perfectly rolled Goldstrike at level 73 when you can first equip a Windforce.

On the other hand, it’s nigh impossible to roll a perfect Goldstrike bow where as all Windforce bows have the same damage. You’re much more likely to hit level 99 where Windforce has maxed out its damage before finding or trading for a perfect Goldstrike bow, though you could compromise and just trade for a perfect 250% ed Goldstrike.

Goldstrike also needs to be upped.

Attack speed

Goldstrike has 30% more native IAS than a Windforce, though if you wanted to make an optimal build with a Goldstrike you can hit the 8fpa attack speed mark while still using fortitude, but it’s honestly not that much better than a 9fpa setup since 8fpa requires you to Shael the bow and get 45% IAS in your helm slot.

Taking into account ammo efficiency and the FoH proc which briefly prevents you from attacking, you’re actually better sticking to a 9fpa setup than stretching for a 8fpa setup. A 9fpa Goldstrike setup allows you to use a 40/15 max jewel in your bow and 3x +30max damage jewels in your helm slot.

The cast delay issue on FoH may be fixed in patch 2.4 though.

Attack rating

This is the only potential area where Goldstrike can stand out vs a Windforce, but this is really only a sticking point below level 80 assuming you’ve built your bowazon properly to have enough attack rating with Windforce.

Windforce’s damage is very substantial still which it takes a very heavy investment to make a Faith bow outperform a Windforce. You really should be ticking the following boxes before deciding to invest in a Faith GMB:

  • Fortitude
  • Pride
  • 80+ damage from max damage charms
  • Have at least 1 respect available

The advantage of faith is that it performs really well at level 73 when you can first use a Windforce, but Windforce’s damage scaling does excel in the long term. It’s easier to go down the Windforce path and hit level 95 than it is to get the ideal gear for faith.

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23

Very nice composition on your argument breakdown.

This is mostly my point in terms of damage and its relation to relevant content, although I haven’t heard or seen anything in the 2.4 patch notes about adjustments on damage vs demons being nerfed or adjusted in any way so I’m not really sure what you mean by it being made weaker.

My interpretation is generally based off of unique rolls being perfect for arguments sake, while unrealistic it’s the only way to compare without RNG alone determining the outcome. You can spend well over a year farming and still not find a Windforce if you’re unlucky. Personally I have seen 30+ Goldstrike drops before seeing a Windforce and the cost to up a unique weapon to its elite version is pretty negligible at that level of farming.

Good points about perfect jewel rolls, but at that level of investment were starting to get into ladder strategies that are actually against Blizzard EULA. I do understand it has become commonplace, but not really much of an argument for people who wish to play the game legitimately.

For me this all comes down to opportunity cost. Bowzon is already so much weaker than cheaper alternatives like a javzon, blizzsorc, or hammerdin. This to me just means that if you are going to go for a bowzon, you really need to go hard just to compete and not feel like the limp noodle in the background struggling to keep up.

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It’s not that the mods themselves were nerfed, but more that the share of damage that these mods provide overall will be less in patch 2.4 thanks to the new damage synergies than in patch 2.3.

Yeah exactly, it’s more just for full disclosure. The general point of Windforce outperforming Goldstrike is the same and was made based on perfect rolls and optimal builds.

We’re not really talking about ladder anyway, but if a 40/15max is an issue (which is easier to find than a perfect rolled Goldstrike), then you can just assume a plain 40% ED jewel or an Ohm rune.

A 40/15max would comparatively benefit Goldstrike more than it benefits a Windforce though as well so if you use a 40% ED jewel or an Ohm rune, the DPS gap would actually widen in favour of Windforce.

It could make a 8fpa Goldstrike build more attractive then, but even still, the contest is not even close, and this is before you take into the FoH casting delay into account.

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Ok, I see what you mean. It’s not weaker so much as it’s not relatively getting the same buff as something that it strictly base physical damage. Essentially just giving the lower Windforce performance a balance in areas with demons and undead and a considerable lead in areas with animals.

While I understand the statistical argument, we’re now talking about hero edited gear or gear that is traded through third party sources. Getting a high rolled Goldstrike or Windforce is more than feasible, but finding optimal jewels and charms under legitimate play styles just isn’t. Maybe I’m just REALLY unlucky.

Again, we’re now just in territory that is just technically possible and not based off of legal live server gameplay. For me I only play ladder because no one plays non-ladder once the new season drops, and third party trading sites currently undermine the legitimacy of the game.

The opportunity cost within a ladder season just makes building around a Windforce sub-par in performance, while upping a Goldstrike as a budget build early season is incredibly effective.

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It depends on how you farm, but like I said, you can just use a 40% ed jewel or an Ohm rune. Using a 40/15max would in effect make Goldstrike perform closer to the level of Windforce, but Windforce still outperforms it by a significant margin.

For charms, you can just use plain max damage charms which are quite affordable. Although Windforce would experience some slight chance to hit issues without these charms, Goldstrike needs the charms more than Windforce does to compensate for the lack of raw weapon damage, especially at higher character levels where Windforce has a lot of +max damage and chance to hit becomes even less of an issue with more dex, penetrate and character level being part of the chance to hit calculation as well.

The Strafe buffs in 2.4 also go some way to alleviate the attack rating issues that Windforce would experience.

I will be sticking to non-ladder as are many of us, but I’ve also played single player for the 2 years prior to the start of this year. I’ve managed to find a 40/15ias, 14max/15ias and a 30max damage jewel while not finding a Windforce or a perfect 250% ed Goldstrike.

I still haven’t seen any details around why you think Windforce underperforms compared to Goldstrike though? It would take 5 minutes to go into the maxroll d2 character planner to make this fairly obvious that Windforce outperforms Goldstrike. Perhaps your last paragraph above needs to be expanded on?

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Windforce is like Eaglehorn on roids.

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WF if youre going glass cannon
Faith if youre going hybrid

There is no Eaglehorn in the picture.

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I mean there is, if you are doing self find. It’s a viable enough to be functional.

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For the sake of not completely obliterating the OP I’ll try to keep it short.

At the price point of an Ohm or a 40/15 you would never waste it on a WF or Goldstrike build, with a perfect Faith build being an A-tier build at best with mobility limitations. Bowzon is generally looked at as a meme build since the addition of Enigma.

Historically pre-D2R, once seasons launch the game lists in non-season more or less disappear. So much so that you can often get high tier gear for free in non-ladder.

It’s not that Goldstrike has a higher potential, just that at the point in which you use either of them it’s just not economically realistic to make WF reasonable. It’s more of a power to weight ratio performance issue with the rarity and value behind WF and its build. With Goldstrike the power being slightly lower and the economic weight being paper thin. It’s like playing a Grandfather barb, it works but not incredibly well with the evolution of the game.

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We’re getting away from the scope of what the OP was trying to ask, which was that they found a WF and was wondering which is a better bow out of the 2.

If we wanted to compare the bows based on the time that you can start using a Windforce (ie, the time where Goldstrike would have the best fighting chance). You would likely have some +max damage items (say 40 from wartravs, 10 from razortail and 30 from charms) and about 300 points into dexterity, which would look something like this:

Damage

  • Windforce: 35 to 466, +80 damage in total from damage adders, the average damage will be 290.5 before any dex multipliers
  • Goldstrike (perfect and upped): 35 to 238, +80 damage in total from damage adders, the average damage will be 176.5 before any dex multipliers

Large damage difference in favour of Windforce by 65%.

There’s no notable difference between the two bows around Dexterity or Critical Strike chance.

Damage vs Demons and Undead

  • Windforce: none
  • Goldstrike: at most +200%

Goldstrike wins here by default, but given that there’s 300 dex, 240% multishot synergy in 2.4 and strafe/guided arrow already have +% damage and the high likelihood of using LoH gloves, the damage added by these adders is at most ~20%.

No where near enough to make up for the 65% damage difference between Windforce and Goldstrike as shown above.

Attack Speed

  • Windforce: 40% with Shael, 20% ammy, 20% gloves, 25%+ helm (Mavs, Stealskull or Andy’s), 45% armour (Treachery), getting you to 8fpa
  • Goldstrike: 70% with Shael, 20% ammy, 20% gloves, 25%+ helm (Mavs, Stealskull or Andy’s), 45% armour (Treachery), getting you to 8fpa

Same attack speed between both bows.

Attack Rating

  • Windforce: 305 dexterity, level 10 penetrate, 4250 attack rating. Chance to hit Hell Bovine: 76%
  • Goldstrike: 300 dexterity, level 10 penetrate, 150% BAR from bow, 7000 attack rating. Chance to hit Hell Bovine: 82%

Goldstrike has an extra 5% chance to hit vs Hell Bovine.

So yeah, vastly in Windforce’s favour even in this scenario… which would be short lived anyway since it’s very easy to gain levels all the way to level 85 where Windforce continues to take a further lead.

Why not? WF is pretty much a best in slot option, which best in slot options well deserve what you put into them.

Windforce and Faith are very close in performance from each other when we’re talking top level gear. It’s only like a 5% DPS margin in favour of Faith.

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You’re not wrong, but the point is going strait over your head. Economics mean nothing outside of ladder so it’s irrelevant to you.

It’s really not worth calculating gravity to dribble a rec league basket ball.

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Then what are you even doing in this thread?

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Giving economic perspective to the efficacy of the options at hand. Thought it was obvious, but what can you do?

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Thereby giving misleading advice to the pertaining question that was asked in this thread.

And if it is just about economics, why did you rate Eaglehorn below WF? Hmm.

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It’s not misleading, but don’t worry you’ll be alright.

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Right, Goldstrike Arch does more damage than Windforce because it’s cheaper. Makes perfect sense :joy: Bye now.

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It’s more of a matter of power to value addition for the economics of ladder. In the end it really is all a waste of currency in a race situation, but that’s the allure behind meme specs. Entirely relevant to determining value of picking up an eight slot item.

Not really sure what the passive aggression is about, but the whole strawman confirmation bias thing is really unnecessary.