Will 2.7 finally fix melees?

General Discussion
1

Hi.
Can we please finally do something with melees being so underpowered in contrast to casters through the entire game until the very endgame?

I do not say we should change the meta and make them do multiple targets damage (main reason why casters are better, next to 100% of chance to hit).
But come on, can we at least make the gap smaller?

My suggestions:
-Make players be able to get 99% of chance to hit.
-Remove lvl from “chance to hit” formula or at least heavily reduce it’s impact
-make dexterity add more attack rating?
-balance weapons base damage
-add damage reduction to heavier armors?
-reduce ridiculous strength requirement for heaviest gear

Then we can talk about balancing single skills…

5 Likes
2

No need… They don’t need to be clearing as fast as casters, they would then be most OP… yes they are slower but they are generally much tankier, they benefit from LL/ML/LT which is huge as casters do not have a comparable equivalent and crushing blow gives them pretty much guaranteed domination of any boss.

4 Likes
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I made these changes in SP. And started from scratch with a bowazon, arguably the hardest melee character with no gear. It was exactly what I wanted out of melee.

So yeah buff base weapon damage. It’s actually huge how much that helps. I like the attack rating system personally but weapons and armors need more of it. Like hundreds through normal/nightmare and thousands in hell.

Each weapon needs more identity. Luckily that was already coded by the og devs. It uses a system similar to D&D where if an item requires more strength and very little dex it often has a wide range in dps values. If it requires more dex than strength it has low damage value but is better for critical values. Weapons like hydra edge are so slow and have such high requirements that they need to be distinguishable to swing compared to the go to BA and phase blade.

Each melee build needs an aoe damage spell and a single target spell that either guarantees hits or converts weapon damage to non-physical to evade defense ratings. Bowazon honestly her skills are perfect the way they are. Guided arrow or magic arrow still apply procs and have high hit chance where strafe and multishot can dispel large mobs quickly. In some cases strafe is better at bosses than guided arrow but the downside is youre locked in place while channel ends.

Unique items and RW need adjusting. But that’s been a common complaint since the dawn of RW honestly… Sooo speaking of… NERF GRIEF. Even just dropping the +damage by 100 brings it more in line with things like Death and Oath and if you buf the +dmg on astreons than end game smiters will have to make an honest decision.

Oh also you gotta max quantity and durability. Repairing every run, sometimes mid run is the most excruciating thing. Consumables max at 500 and weapons at 255. I think keeping the repair system is important but durability on a weapon especially WW degrades so fast.

As for defense mitigating damage they would have to scrap the whole system. And while I agree +1 defense= -1 damage is easier to comprehend we are saddled with again this D&D system. So best thing to do for armor is remove the Run/Walk and stamina penalties all together. I don’t mind Archon Plate being a chase armor but at least if you find a nice Boneweave or Diamond mail itd be nice to be able to use it…

1 Like
4

I would appreciate and adjustment to all of the missing on melee characters.
Even when you “hit”, you still have something like a 30-50% chance to have your attack blocked.

It’s terribly dissatisfying when you “miss” 4/5 of your zeal strikes, despite having 85% chance to hit monster lol

4 Likes
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I’m going to repeat what I say in all similar threads. To Hit isn’t the issue. Block chance is.
Even on Baal, you can reasonably get a decent To Hit value. What makes you miss most of your hits on Baal and many other opponents is their Block chance that is quite high (In hell, it is 55% for Baal, 50% for Diablo and a lot of normal monsters, some have lower values).
I’d suggest thinking about requesting stuff to get through Block chance, rather than requesting improvements on the To Hit calculations, which are barely going to change anything.

These changes would benefit casters just as much, as most characters make sure to be able to lift the heaviest of armors.

6

I mean then we are talking about altering Baal’s identity. You don’t need to be able to farm all content, and ill say something controversial, baal is arguably some of the worst content to farm.

Baal is a high defense tank who was designed to be a nuisance. All his skills deal very little damage but they push you back, freeze, drain, and reduce defense. He was designed to give melee characters a fat headache, but you only have to beat him once.

As for caster using heavy armor, no they won’t. They need as much vitality as they can get. There is a reason every caster stops putting strength exactly at 156…. If you could make spirit in a tower shield aint no caster dropping even a single point in strength.

7

Baal is just the biggest offender. A lot of other monsters have high block chance.
33% on Black Rogues, 40% on Flesh Hunters, 36% on Dark Ones, 49% on Warped Ones, 33% on all mummies, 40% on Andariel, 50% on Duriel, Mephisto and Diablo.

If your ability to hit monsters is causing you trouble, chances are it’s because of block chance.

1 Like
8

I’m all for adding more AR per pts into Dex, adding more damage to the base weapons, you just need to add +5-10 to each weapon to make a difference.

I also support the DR for heavy armors and reducing the ST req for them, but I’d also support removing or reducing the speed penalties. No one really uses them as there is no real benefit from heavy armors. There is a little more than 100 def difference between a Dusk Shroud and Sacred Armor, that’s closer to 400 def once bonuses are applied. This extra 400 def comes at the cost of 155 more pts into ST and a speed penalty. That isn’t worth is in any scenario.

I would also add in a point of DR for every 500 Defense rating. This rewards/encourages players to actually get the high Def rating and gives a reward for having it.

2 Likes
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Honestly melee is great at killing bosses, so I don’t really see the argument for “bosses block too much.” CB is THE boss killer…

1 Like
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Grief is like the only weapon lol.
One of the reasons melee are so bad, and it makes the melee loot so terrible.

Also, most unique weapons are way too slow. Instant charsi food.

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I dunno man, AR isn’t hard to come by. It’s pretty dang hard to make a melee that isn’t hitting baal 83-90% of the time. Block is different, but again… like what melee struggles on Baal? Bosses are like the easiest things for melee.

12

Pitzerker is best magic find char in the game and Mosaic Assassin is the best build in the game. period.
No need to make them even crazier. They are godlike in the end game, so they can suck early on.
Also, no more patching for D2r, like you really believe they still care about the game? lul

13

You list two builds that barely rely on physical damage or AR, that hardly builds a case that melee builds are fine.

Yes melee builds are good at boss killing but that doesn’t make the case that they are good in all situations. When was the last time you died to a boss? As long as there are players out there relying on duel Angelics to ‘get the AR’, there is a problem with AR. Yes block is another obsacle that melee has to deal with but that is a separate issue, AR can use a small boost. Adding AR to Dex mean for those who wish to invest the pts into dex you can get a better result on AR. For those who don’t feel they need it, they don’t need to invest the pts.

3 Likes
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The mosaic issue is a good point to bring up in that, I don’t think I want this group of devs messing with the game anymore lol… anyone who has played even 100 hours of D2 knows RW are by far one of the biggest issues with power creep.

Then they introduce mosaic which is so busted it’s still being cried about here. They should have made claw mastery have “+% chance to not consume charge max:75%” and just made mosaic a nice elemental beater stick. Instead we got that and metamorphosis another trash RW introducing annoying mechanics for required stat bonuses…

15

Angelic is early game stuff. It’s all about those sweet, sweet AR/Damage/Life charms. :slight_smile: Or failing that just plan AR charms are pretty easy to come by, and give even more AR. I mean on a non barb ravenfrosts alone are some pretty EZ AR.

People also seriously undervalue dex for mid game AR for PvM.

On a super basic 85 barb with no charms(other than anni/torch), and no blessed aim merc, 85 into dex is the difference in hitting Eldritch 66% of the time or 80% of the time. And let’s be real here, PvE you don’t need to max vita stack on barb. With BO and 300 into Vita you’re already breaking 4k life. That’s before vita charms.

Pushing some dex up until around 87% hit doesn’t hurt anything for PvM.

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They did. Originally it would had added up to 50% chance, but Mr. Lama did not like that.
Always best when a company makes patching decisions based on a single creators opinion of course.

2 Likes
17

The only things I know of that needs fixing is returning the damage to Tomb Vipers and fix whirlwind so it works like it does in 1.14 D2 LoD or make whirlwind proc “chance to cast” skills.

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Melee overall is just fine. They buffed several things, made several monsters total jokes of their former selves, nerfed all monsters across the board with things like mana burn changes.
Do you need to have someone walk you while they feed you your cake too?

You suggestions minus 2 are vague at best anyway.

There are some things that could/shoudl be addressed.

You SHOULD be talking about specific skills, like what they did to to WW, frenzy and double swing. Aka they nerfed them all with zero compensation. Nobody threw a fit when they announced them. I DIRECTLY asked what they did to the double swing formulas, and of course they refused to answer. It’s been basically figured out since.

Overall frenzy and double swing were nerfed hard. Thanks to those that couldn’t handle the shear complexity of offhand mechanics. Their new averaging formula blows in comparison.
This also applies to the dual claw melee sin (but hey they broke that the other way with one item and the changes to charges, right?).

WW outright slower. There was again no compensation for this.

The Fireclaw druid THEY PURPOSEFULLY, KNOWINGLY, AND GIDDILY trashed this build. Put Werebears back the way they were, or at least let them hit the same attack rates without hiding it behind maxing of an entire other skill…that…is…not…fire.

Vengeance has never been in a good spot. It actually should be given a small AoE. It solves a slew of issues maining this skill.

Fury druids, and zealers, smiters are nigh indestructible. Like close your eyes, fall asleep, and let your drool guide your walkthrough.

Edit: so people whine and whined and whined about immunities. When the arguable gap between meel and caster was in a better place. They gave you sunder charms, and now you whine that melee is left where it was. WOW didn’s see that coming from across the ocean…

19

Honestly just give enemies a chance to block spell damage equal to that of melee damage

2 Likes
20

Sounds good to me. We can do this in the patch in which we remove LL and ML from the game.
Oh and DS too.
Heck, let’s just go full blown equality and remove damage dealt to undead / demons and all triggered on hit effects.