Why do you need /players x online

[Huntaren-1718]

100% They took away our ability to play offline with players 8 and then play online with friends and fam over LAN.

[emotecontrol-1885]

@naloth-1620

5. The game is hostile to MP in many ways. Shared loot often leads to fighting or ninja’ing. Sometimes you miss a quest and can’t progress. Most infamously is someone else jumps in to tag the boss while the party is leveling. Strangers can (and often do) just hostile you.

This is a big issue for me. I don’t play with people I don’t trust because lots of them are going to be there to ninja loot or grief. I’m just not interested in playing with randos, and I never have been since the game came out in 2000. I want to play with a couple of friends, because I know they’re not going to try to mess up the game for the rest of us.

[Zax-11538]

@naloth-1620

Yea, the picture of an open mind. You instantly assigned “negative” to the idea the others getting stuff of value would deflate the value of your equipment. Apparently greed is only an issue if it’s not yours.

Well you are wrong, i am very greedy in D2R too. I always was like that in D2. But understanding of how game and community works helped me to understand how that command would negatively impact the game. My inner greed is competing with logic, so far logic wins.

@naloth-1620

/players scales difficulty. That’s good to either waste less time or to get a more entertaining challenge.

You can have that with real players tho. You dont need command for it.

@naloth-1620

it allows for more ways to play the game than doing baal runs. Getting a fair rate of Xp from other areas goes back to “gee if I play, I should accomplish something”

I am doing this for ages. I was doing it on D2 realms with 1000x smaller player base. You dont need players x for it, real people are playing online.

@naloth-1620

You don’t always have your friends around to play on the same schedule.

Thats why you can join public split MF runs.

@naloth-1620

it takes quite a bit of work to organize larger games. Why can’t I play with only a couple of friends instead of the magic number?

Maybe just a little bit but its not that bad really. Maybe only now before ladder.

@naloth-1620

Shared loot often leads to fighting or ninja’ing.

Well this is already listed greed.

@naloth-1620

Sometimes you miss a quest and can’t progress.

Ok but how is that related to players x. If you do quests in public you can miss the quest i guess? Idk how tho as you will get it in party but fine in some occasions you can miss something. But then you can do quest in solo game. You could do it in the first place.

@naloth-1620

Most infamously is someone else jumps in to tag the boss while the party is leveling. Strangers can (and often do) just hostile you.

This is honestly rare but ok i will add that.

[Zax-11538]

I added some of your reasons.

[naloth-1620]

@Zax-11538

Well you are wrong, i am very greedy in D2R too. I always was like that in D2. But understanding of how game and community works helped me to understand how that command would negatively impact the game. My inner greed is competing with logic, so far logic wins.

You mean rationalization wins. Obviously when the motivation is the same, but you only see your side that’s not logic.

@Zax-11538

You can have that with real players tho. You dont need command for it.

Unless you’re talking about split farming (which isn’t cooperative), there’s not way to do it. Having other players around, helping, directly affects how hard it is to play.

@Zax-11538

I am doing this for ages. I was doing it on D2 realms with 1000x smaller player base. You dont need players x for it, real people are playing online.

Not sure what you’re getting at. Obviously you can’t be getting more experience than SP in other places by yourself.

[quote=“Zax-11538, post:23, topic:115529, full:true”]
Thats why you can join public split MF runs.
[/qoute]
That’s not cooperative play. That’s just a primitive form of /players that takes more work to set up.

@Zax-11538

Maybe just a little bit but its not that bad really. Maybe only now before ladder.

It’s certainly a level of work. There’s no question that’s true.

@Zax-11538

Well this is already listed greed.

Sure, as a drawback of playing MP.

@Zax-11538

Ok but how is that related to players x. If you do quests in public you can miss the quest i guess? Idk how tho as you will get it in party but fine in some occasions you can miss something. But then you can do quest in solo game. You could do it in the first place.

You understand that if you can’t quest together effectively, it’s not really a good MP game?

@Zax-11538

This is honestly rare but ok i will add that.

Nope, it’s not even rare - or at least it wasn’t back when the view public games features were working properly. Try doing a public leveling game that’s clearly marked. I bet a few will jump in to kill later act bosses.

EDIT: Yea, I saw how you added them. Basically slanted to make them look negative rather than listing how they would benefit the community as a whole.

[Jman-1752]

Keep the drop-rates and experience the same as player 1 for all I care. I just want the ability to bump up the difficulty and push my build to the limits. And I want to be able to do it without ruining other people’s public games.

@Zax-11538

If you really want challenge and lesser no drop chance to find runes with your strong character, you can find same minded people and do split MF runs.

This is a pain in the butt and you know it. Having to organize 7 other people and then have everyone decide which map they are going to focus on. Then waiting around until everyone finishes their little zone. Then doing it over and over.

[Zax-11538]

@naloth-1620

EDIT: Yea, I saw how you added them. Basically slanted to make them look negative rather than listing how they would benefit the community as a whole.

I am not suger coating anything, i listed what people have issue with.

[Willy-13461]

The concept of Players2-8 exists because the designers wanted a multiplayer game. Then since you can even cheat in single player if you want, they figured why not allow single players to emulate the setting if desired. Now we are coming full circle where people are using the argument of its existence on single player as a reason for it to exist on multiplayer, thus defeating the entire purpose of multiplayer.

I personally would address this issue by nerfing any build that can easily do P5+ with a benchmark of balance to be around P1-3 depending upon how good the build’s gear is. That way even if a player could have P8 games (which they still shouldn’t be able to without actual players), they wouldn’t be able to do them without others.

[naloth-1620]

@Zax-11538

@naloth-1620

EDIT: Yea, I saw how you added them. Basically slanted to make them look negative rather than listing how they would benefit the community as a whole.

I am not suger coating anything, i listed what people have issue with.

You listed your bias. It’s not “logical reasons why you would want it.” It’s “how I knock others reasons.”

[emotecontrol-1885]

@Zax-11538

@naloth-1620

EDIT: Yea, I saw how you added them. Basically slanted to make them look negative rather than listing how they would benefit the community as a whole.

I am not suger coating anything, i listed what people have issue with.

“Here are my noble, logical, arguments that any reasonable and moral person will agree with. And here are my opponent’s loathsome, self-serving, degenerate arguments that anyone can see are despicable and contrary to everything good.”

[Zax-11538]

@Willy-13461

I personally would address this issue by nerfing any build that can easily do P5+ with a benchmark of balance to be around P1-3 depending upon how good the build’s gear is. That way even if a player could have P8 games (which they still shouldn’t be able to without actual players), they wouldn’t be able to do them without others.

I agree, well said…

[Zax-11538]

@naloth-1620

You listed your bias. It’s not “logical reasons why you would want it.” It’s “how I knock others reasons.”

I would not list it at all if i would not consider it as valid reason. When all people share their reasons i will make another topic and talk about results and what blizzard can do about it because so honestly majority of reasons can be fixed by different game mechanics or features.

I added two additional reasons btw

[naloth-1620]

@Zax-11538

@naloth-1620

You listed your bias. It’s not “logical reasons why you would want it.” It’s “how I knock others reasons.”

I would not list it at all if i would not consider it as valid reason. When all people share their reasons i will make another topic and talk about results and what blizzard can do about it because so honestly majority of reasons can be fixed by different game mechanics or features.

… and that’s exactly what you’re unsuited to do both. You’ve come to the discussion with a predetermined outcome (“only other solutions are value”) and haven’t entertained reasons why it would be better at all.

For example your first “greed” is much less slanted if you say:

1. /players decreases “no drop” therefore providing more loot per kills. That’s more loot overall if the kill rate can be maintained.

Arguments “for” would be
a) Less time investment for items, provided you can hack the difficulty.
b) deflation of item values, makes trading for items easier overall
c) botting has already flooded the market, so there would be minimal overall difference.
d) I don’t have to put up with MP issues present in D2.

Arguments “against” would be
a) It makes a cool item I find less valuable for trading
b) It makes the game over all easier since equipment quality should improve even for SSF.
c) botters can find even more stuff easier since they can /players
d) it makes LK even more of a goldmine

That’s a presentation of both views with an attempt to limit bias. Hopefully, you can see the difference.

[Zax-11538]

You are missing the point of this topic or maybe i didnt explain it well.

I am not trying to find arguments for or against it. I am trying to find reasons why people want it because it can show real issues this games has in online play and then there should be discussion how to solve them. Players x command is not good solution, implementation of it would be avoidance to solve real issues. Game should be improved. Ignoring issues by giving us artificial players instead of improving playing with real ones is bad approach.

[naloth-1620]

@Zax-11538

I am not trying to find arguments for or against it. I am trying to find reasons why people want it because it can show real issues this games has in online play and then there should be discussion how to solve them. Players x command is not good solution, implementation of it would be avoidance to solve real issues. Game should be improved. Ignoring issues by giving us artificial players instead of improving playing with real ones is bad approach.

While I encourage “fact finding” or at least finding the pain points, your approach is still a problem. First off, your agenda seems to be to attack reasons for /players. At the very least you’ve portrayed the reasons rather negatively. Second, you’ve stated your opinion as fact multiple times (“players x command is not a good solution”, “avoidance to solve real issues” "bad approach) without any support. That’s agenda without reason.

If you want to fix your topic to be “why people want /players X” then at least start by listing what it would accomplish in a neutral, factual fashion. I fixed #1 for you, see if you can do a few others.

[Zax-11538]

@naloth-1620

Second, you’ve stated your opinion as fact multiple times (“players x command is not a good solution”

Yeah because it is a fact. But its fine if you dont see it that way.

Why is that a fact? Because point of MP game is to have players playing together. Having MP game where players would prefer artificial players instead of real ones is kind of failure dont you think?

[Zax-11538]

Or you know what? I take that back. Its not bad decision, it would be Cheap and Lazy solution not adressing real ingame problems and creating new problems on top of that.

[BadHabits-1970]

i don’t need p8. i bought 4 copies, so i just need one more person for p5 usually, it’s not bad.

[naloth-1620]

@Zax-11538

Why is that a fact? Because point of online game is to have players playing together. Having online game where players would prefer artificial players instead of resdons is kind of failure dont you think?

No, it’s not a fact. You can play by yourself, and many do. Often I play with friends, but when they aren’t around often I play by myself because of years of toxic experiences with strangers. You can perceive that as a design failure but obviously they added the ability to jump into games to go hostile as a design feature.

I’ve also provided plenty of reasons why /players wouldn’t really affect actual cooperative play. Those players are in it for the socialization, not for the reasons you’ve justified keeping it from others. I can also list reasons why it’s a more practical solution then mass changes that could have other unintended effects.

Again, the problem with your approach is that you’ve decided what you want to see was problems in an attack mode. Let’s look at your first reason again: " Greed - doesnt need explanation, people want more stuff even when online mode provide enough opportunities." You’re saying anyone that wants that is engaging in a deadly sin which is bad in ways that doesn’t require explanation, but hey, this change isn’t needed either. That’s an insult and argument against where you’re supposedly addressing “why it might be needed”. Yea, right.

EDIT: For reference, I’m not set on /players X as a solution to the issues I perceive. It’s just an easily understood reference for a sliding difficulty option.

[Revenant309-1514]

Heres a logical reason… Players are already doing it by many different means, so may as well give us the legit means.