People mostly mention barbarian so i will use him as prime example of melee, he is clear winner with terror zones. Physical immunes are not that common, and if you have quite cheap lawbringer in off hand, resist of undeads you fight is 0%. You simply do not need charm at all. With one cheap item you can already farm pretty much any zone while elemental builds will suffer because of immunes and will be quite limited in which zones they can farm before they will get the charm and elite stuff like infinity in most cases.
Nothing beat barb even then if he got hands on expensive stuff like enigma as he has find itemâŚ
There is reason that best item farmers in the game use barb for mf or rune finding. And thats continue to be a thing still even in terror zones.
I didnt say abything about who has most damage. He has enough damage to be good terror zones farmer because his damage cannot be resisted by almost nobody if he has one cheap lawbringer.
Yeah ok so what? Sorc is good farmer only because of teleport.
And more than thatâŚafter the 2.4 patchâŚunder 34% IAS Grief BA is no longer useless, as you can reach the 63%IAS breakpoint for 4fpa for ww with even a 30% IAS grief BA by wearing Highlord+Loh.
I run a ww barb with grief+ebotd BA with a Hoto and isted suiced branch on swap and heâs a trav horking machine. Definitely not the fastest build in terror zones, but find item compensates for it.
Some good points in principle. But these horkers you go on abiut clear the pits and travincal. Thats all. Even then the merc does the killing.
Sorcs get more than teleport. They get screen clearing 1 click skills with no immunities. Also, look at the MF gear you get for a sorc. You aint getting 800% on barb and actually killing anything.
You cant have a decent frenzy with a decent find item. Not enough points.
Try not to directly contradict yourself in the same point. If merc does all the killing, then 800% MF and ânot killing anythingâ isnât an issue is it?
atm meles are very good, but with sunder charms, best gear slots for sorc, for example will be light years better hahaha!! Hope sunder charms have same dropp chance like Zod =)
You are not getting 800% on sorc either. Even like 600% is struggle on sorc already why barb can hork with double isted alibabas or isted swords which higher mf than sorc.
Merc doesnt need to kill but can, with grief is every monster like 1-3 swings anyway. Except bosses of course.
Barb has only one disadvantage and thats boss farming early on, but thats not related to terror zones.
The thing is, barb doesnt need to kill on high player setting, killing monsters on p1 with 65+% chance to hork means alot of items.
I donât think anyone is trying to insinuate that Barb can clear areas as fast or faster than a sorc. Even with the godliest gear and charms.
I think the point of the thread is that melee is not as hopeless or dead as some try making it.
I find my ww barb fantastic in p1-p3 and up to p5 if I give up all the 7mf charms and switch to max damage/ar grand charms. After p5âŚneed to switch Enigma for Fortitude. But still cannot compete with the clear speeds of sorcs that use cheaper gear.
Horking awayâŚ
Agreed, with all but the most extreme gear. To keep your FCR at 105 for nova, plus the ability to actually kill anything efficiently above p4, itâs not going to be anywhere near 800%.
On my light sorc, w/ griffs / infinity etc, itâs @425 and thatâs streamlined for P1. If youâre thinking P8, youâll have to drop it further unless your gear is just obscene. You can tell with comments like that, who actually plays a sorc, and who scapegoats. Itâs obvious they never made an MF sorc build of any normal quality.
I agree. My light sorc with the same gear sits at 220% mf with the p8, 48k damage gear.
The funny thing is all the gg uniques I dropped were with low MF buildsâŚGriffon with my bowazone with 85% MFâŚDeath Web and CoA from my try-build paladin with 199% mf.
Right and if youâre a traditional light sorc, using normal light/chain, itâs 117 FCR, which is a funky number to start with, youâll be sacrificing more MF for clearing P7-8
I definitely disagree that melee is dead, but it could use some improvements. Some of the things Iâd like to see:
Durability
Durability of some elite weapons could be increased, take one-handed axes for example. Most of them sit between 24-28 durability, which isnât very much if youâve got a fast attack like Zeal, Fury, Whirlwind, etc.
Iâm not saying they should have hundreds of durability or anything like that, but I think itâd be better if 35-40 durability was the baseline for all elite weapons. Itâd still be a relevant stat but itâd be nice to reduce the amount of town trips to the blacksmith.
Base Weapon Damage
I think itâd be good to bump up the base damage of elite weapons, how much exactly Iâm not sure.
Monsters had a huge life increase in 1.10 but weapon damage wasnât buffed to compensate (I checked weapons.txt, the damage values are the same between 1.09 and 1.10+). While some melee skills did get synergies I donât think it was enough to counteract the life increase.
2H weapons in particular could use a larger damage increase I think, again not sure of a specific amount. In most cases their damage isnât worth the tradeoff of a shield or another weapon in the case of barbarians.
Monster Block Chance
There is nothing melee classes can do to circumvent a monsters block chance (outside of specific exceptions like Smite and Impale), meaning itâs always a chance to miss.
I think for regular monsters their current block chances are fine as is, in my opinion the main problem is Act Bosses, specifically in Hell.
Andariel has 40% CtB, Duriel/Mephisto/Diablo have 50%, and Baal has 55%. This means the absolute best odds a melee character can muster against the Act Bosses (assuming a 95% CtH which is quite hard to reach without defense reduction) is 57%, 47.5%, and 42.75% respectively.
I think their current block chances are a bit too punishing to physical characters currently, Iâd reduce them down to 45% block chance, maybe 40% but that might be a bit too much.
A bit offtopic, but Iâd like if they fixed some of the boss cheeses too. Mephisto should be able to float over the moat, Diabloâs Lightning Hose should be able to hit at melee range in Nightmare/Hell, Baal should be fixed so slowing effects donât make him a trivial fight (currently he interrupts his own animations if he gets slowed too much).
Chance to Hit Formula
The chance to hit formula is something Iâm a bit iffy on, I personally donât mind it as it currently is but a decent amount of people would like it to be changed. Hereâs what it currently looks like:
alvl = Attacker Level
dlvl = Defender Level
AR = Attack Rating
DR = Defense Rating
% Chance to hit = 100 * 2 * (alvl / (alvl+dlvl) ) * (AR / (AR+DR) )
I wouldnât mind if they changed it, Iâm not sure what the best way to go about it would be though.
Indeed but since the quickcast chances I also spice things up with NovaâŚespecially when running pits. I cannot even imagine playing the old way without quickcast. Amazing qol update.
If we talk about best char for MF and rune finding, yes its the most op char if you have good items.
In sense of op class or build in general considering many aspects like early play and equip. No, its not most op classs or build.
My point was that many people are making apokalyptic topics,posts how is melee dead and how they killed it with 2.5. I am saying its nonse as if anything, terror zones can be farmed with barb quite well, infact unlike majority of other builds, barb can farm pretty much all of them snd diesbt even need sunder charm like others.
And why we dont see topics about barbs and nerfs when its best mf and rune find char? Well most player base lack knowledge to even know that he is
There is no doubt in my mind that Barb is most efficient/strongest melee character.
In the last 13 months Iâve only seen 3 zealots in chaos/baal runs⌠1 of them is me.
I posted this in another thread, but feel it is relevant here as wellâŚ
The Sorcâs Zeal DPS is 179,234!!!
My Purpose built Zealot (clvl96) with a 40/398/23 and 15%ED Grief PB, maxâd synergy (Sacrifice) and maxâd Fanatacism (60 hard points all in) does a whopping DPS of 43,452. My Dual Dream guy⌠DPS of 36,413.
Sorc with 1 point in Zeal and a weapon no melee class would consider end game (actually has monster flee on itâŚLOL), is more than 400% stronger than a proper built Zealot with a godly Grief.
To sum that up, Sorc is a better Zealot than a actual Zealot.
Thatâs jacked up, and is an example of why melee is dying.
Playing online with casters/ranged, that are often 3+ levels lower than my Zealot, and they clear the screen (and beyond) before I have time to engage a single monster.
Zax,
Lets hook up in game and run our melee characters through the WSKâs and hit up Baal for a few runsâŚ
Wait, let me guessâŚ
You donât have a melee characterâŚ
