Hey mates
As in topic - what is the best dual wielded weapons combination for Whirlwind? I might add I’m planning to use Berserker Axes as base, although I don’t exclude swords/maces. Also, I’m going to use Find Item, so 2xDoom, although it looks neat, is not an option.
Before I’ll get stuff for final weapon I’m going to wield two Honor axes.
2x Grief is really tough to beat.
Regarding bases I prefer PB though since any roll will let you hit the last WW BP, whereas with BA you need 34 or more IAS.
I also love the fact that PB are indestructible so you don’t have to worry about weapon repairs.
If you are buying them vs self rolling so you know what the ias is ahead of time, or can afford to reroll a few times and don’t want to spend the dex then BA may be worth it.
If cost is no object, grief and beast do the most damage. Grief, EBOTDz will do lots of damage and take care of your mana and life needs. Grief and eth Death Cleaver hits hard but two Grief would be better.
If you are willing to use swords, Grief or EBOTD and Azurewrath is an interesting combination as the aura makes killing undead easy. I would personally use Grief Zweihander and Ber’d Azurewrath. If I had to use axes I’d go with two EBOTD or EBOTD and eth DC because the repairs on Grief axes is really annoying.
edit, the repair costs on beastz is also annoying
I’m not familiar with these acronyms - what’s EBOTDz??
Ethereal Breath of the Dying Zerker (berserker axe) DC is Death Cleaver, the unique berserker axe. Axes have very little durability, I’d think hard about Grief for player vs monster. If you plan on any player vs player then it is the best route.
I think that’s only true with a pvp BvC setup, that’s because such a setup has very low off-weapon ED (maybe 300ish from skills + 100ish from strength).
In PVM, you usually have a might merc and/or fortitude, the extra off-weapon ED from beast becomes less significant and 2xgrief is better. You might also pump str and wear laying of hands, both of which pump your off-weapon ED.
With the rise of amas, beast might become obsolete. It’d be grief BA + Stormshield or Grief + Doom vs Amas.
@Topic:
For PVP: Grief Ba + Beast BA, no contest there.
For PVM: Grief PB + a broken weapon (best if it is etheral and broken) or 2 x eBOTDz or 2x Grief PB if you’re “rich”.
I like 2 handed eBOTD GPA or Ghost Spear for when I need Berserk against single targets, for example vs the council. You can one hit them.
Thanks mates. I’m interesting in PvM only, but I’m curious - what makes Grief + Beast superior to 2xGrief? Extra move speed from Fanaticism?
No,
melee damage consists of “on-weapon damage” and “off-weapon damage” these names are misleading but what are used
on weapon damage consists of
(weapon base damage )*enhanced_damage_on_weapon+added damage from all sources
Off weapon enhanced damage is
(strength + ed_from_auras + ed_from_skills + ed_from_armor)
Your final damage is your “on weapon damage” multiplied by your “off weapon enhanced damage”
BvC’s (whirly barbs for pvp) have very low off weapon enhanced damage as they have wear enigma and max health, therefore they have minimal strength. WW also has very low extra damage compared to other skills. Even though beast has only ~half the damage of grief, the multiplier from the fanatacism aura is enough that your final damage is higher. You can look up the calc’s online, its in fact more complicated than what i described as they take into account everything (open wounds vs deadly strike for instance) but the main reason is the increased off-weapon ED.
The reason this matters less in pvm is because if you factor in the extra enhanced damage from merc’s might aura and other things the ED from beast is less significant and ultimately 2x griefs does more damage. Take these numbers below with a grain of salt as they are crude guesses but it should help you understand the general idea.
A bvc has ~400% off weapon ED from strength and skills. Lets say each grief hits for 400.
your damage with 2x grief for 1 hit from each hand = (400+400)*(1+400/100)=4k
Beast has about half the damage but adds ~200% off weapon ED.
(400+200)*(1+600/100)=4200
if you used 2x beast it owuld look something like this
(200+200)*(1+800/100)=3600
so grief + beast is the best, beast + beast the worst.
Now imagine you wore a fortitude instead which added 300% off-weapon ED
2x grief becomes (800)*(8)=6400
grief + beast becomes (600)*10=6000
2x grief is now stronger, as you add more ED on (might aura, conc aura from pride, extra strength) grief becomes more and more favorable.
Again the numbers above aren’t actually accurate, and there are more things to account for, but what i wrote above is the main reason why beast is better for low-ED setups (which are the meta for pvp).
i actually agree ebotd in a ghost spear just feels much better than it looks on paper, maybe its the range 5
Good try to explain but a couple of corrections:
That’s not how WW works . WW starts with two hit checks at 4th and 8th frame where you hit with your primary weapon only. Then every 2 frames (dual wield last BP WW) a hit check is done if a target is in vicinity. So it is Grief (4th), Grief (8th), Beast (10th), Grief (12th), Beast(14) and so on. That would be more than half a second. In that time, most opponents flee so if you manage to land hits it’d be mostly with Grief. The second point is Barb is notorious for low attack rating. Having all the damage but not hitting a high defense barb or paladin is of no use. Fanatism from Beast helps a looooooong way with the ability to hit targets with 20k defense rating or more.
More like having to repair is a pain mostly in PVM. Range doesn’t matter much either so one chooses PB instead of BA.
Ahh I see, I wasn’t aware of that quirk for whirlwind, the first part definitely skews it heavily in favor of making the second weapon an ED booster especially for short whirls. I was aware of the AR as well but left that out as a simplification.
Repairs are obviously a pain but even putting that aside I still think the significance of the added ED makes 2x grief pB preferable even from a damage perspective in pvm. Especially if you are runnign forti with a might merc. Also in pvm whirls tend to be a bit longer so the usage of each weapon will approach 50%.
For PvM versatility and convenience has so much more value than raw damage does.
Depends on area to farm.
I would say Grief main hand ALWAYS. Second hand I really liked Azurewrath in 2.3 patch - I was clearing Throne room in p8 much easier than with 2x Griefs or other combo. The remove of undead physical resistance to 0% from Sanctuary aura is game changer against Gloams or other undeads.
With 2.4 patch Sanctuary even works!! So you get what 500% dmg to undead + their physical res is 0%.
I wouldn’t use Whirlwind until they fix it. Broken as
What’s wrong with Whirlwind, except not registering initial 2 hits?
2 hits not registering plus alt ww not working still