Hello all. I am just wondering as I have tried reddit but pages are broken everytime I try to look online. However, I wanted to ask this forum as it is up to date with everything if the actual type of weapon has any drastic change into the runeword being made?
For example, (btw, Grief I will NOT be discussing as it’s always the same 2 weapons for it PB and BA) If I have a 5 socket Eth Naga axe and made a Death into it, is it a massive waste of runes to do this? Will my dmg be that bad I won’t clear hell with it etc?
I only ask this as I have decided to give 3 builds a go but each one is lacking in dmg and I have enough runes to make 1 Death, Voice of Reason, Oath and Lawbringer. The only problem is that only 1 of these builds will get the weapon and I only have a Dimensional Blade 3 socket, 4 socket Knout, 5 socket Ettin axe (not eth sadly) and a 5 socket Eth Naga axe.
My 3 builds are - A zealot Paladin lvl 65. A Fury druid lvl 62. And a MA Assassin lvl 58 (can face pretty much all immunes but is brittle (fade doesn’t help).
My survivability on these builds with the budget gear that they all have is fine (except for Assassin who is brittle) but their dmg output after Act1 (Maggot Lair Act 2 I am at with my Zealot) is falling off big time. I cannot get past many mobs and avoiding these mobs is not ideal due to the fact that
I will need a viable character to farm act 1 with at least to get better gear. This is why I need to know if the weapons above are efficient for the runewords I can make. Out of the 3 my Zealot is better due to surviving better than my MA Assassin as for my druid he is too weak to start hell act 1 with due to little to 0 CB and Life leech.
Remember, I have enough runes to make 1 of each of these runewords but the weapons are the issue.
What this troll failed to tell you, OP, is that AS hasn’t been updated for D2R and records LoD only. So for D2R changes https:// d2r.guide/ would be a better page.
Don’t listen too much to the ratings, they are a personal opinion.
It’s a huge damage loss to make things in the exceptional versions, if the RW has %ED, since that ED multiplier goes off the weapon base damage.
I’d personally feel like Voice of Reason is more a meme build or a very specialized elemental build that you would likely not have the rest of the support gear for.
Lawbringer is really nice with the decrep procs and the sanct aura, but it really shines on a Barb where you can use it in the off hand more of a “stat stick”, IMO, since then you get to still use a higher damage weapon as well. Best of both worlds. I did use it on my Fant Zealot’s weapon swap to deal with PIs until his Frenzy Barb Merc had enough dex for PB, at which point he got it. It would still kill decently fast with the decrep proc in early Hell, and sanct makes any undead go down super fast. By Arcane Sanct in Hell my merc already used it though, and I was using Oath in an eth Cryptic Sword, so I’m not sure how viable it would be as your main weapon past where you really are.
Since it has no %ED, making it in the 3 OS Dimensional Blade wouldn’t be awful in terms of damage loss, although PB base damage is 33 vs. only 24 for DB, which is a not-insignificant 37.5% damage increase, however given the numbers are a lot lower it may not hurt as bad, and you’d still get the decrep procs and sanct benefits.
Death is awesome but you’d likely want to put it in a 2H Elite Axe for your Fury Druid, 1H for your Zealot and as you noted, Eth base to take advantage of the Indestructible bonus. That base damage increase is factored in at the weapon level so it’s really significant. Given the massive %ED you get, it would also be a big loss to make it in an exceptional base, especially for the price I’d hold out for a more reasonable base than what you have right now.
Oath is a very common “stepping stone” to Grief or other end game weapons, and you can absolutely finish Hell with it in the right base. I’ve made it in eBalrog Blade and e Cryptic Swords. An Ettin Axe, Berserker Axe, Small Crescent or Conquest Sword would also work well, IMO. Same deal as Death in terms of non-eth being a huge damage loss, and same deal on %ED meaning you want to maximize base damage as much as possible. This one is a bit scarier to roll since the %ED range is so wide, I always clench hoping I don’t get a low 200s roll! At least it’s cheaper, so “wasting” the runes isn’t as bad, and if it lets you progress when you’re otherwise at a wall, then maybe it’s worth it?
TBH it’s rather impressive that you’ve got Vex, Gul, multiple Lem and a Ko rune if you haven’t even progressed past early/mid Act 2 Hell.
Are you playing SSF or on SP? I wonder if trading might be a better option for you. Either trading for a more reasonable base for Oath or Death, or trading some of the runes for a finished weapon straight up. Something to think about.
Overall given your current bases and runes, I’d be the least annoyed about a Lawbringer Dimensional Blade, since it doesn’t have %ED, but I also suspect that would be the least helpful for you. DB also has repair cost concerns that PB doesn’t, but as a stepping stone might be something you can live with.
What weapon/gear and skill allocation does the Zealot currently use?
Sorry for late reply, busy week. I have read your comment and thank you for the in-depth guide. I am Solo offline only player. I like to achieve stuff on own merit. The main issue I have about all of this is if I make the runeword and it backfires becoming a waste of runes or do I play another couple of days, weeks, months or as far as years until I get a base that is perfect or better runes to make a more powerful runeword.
My Zealot has crescent moon weapon at the moment, treachary armor, Lore helm, Ancients pledge paladin shield, IK belt, random rings with res and life leach, amulet with fire and light res with +1 to combat skills paladin. Sanders gloves.
Zealot skills are - +1 to pre required skills (including Holy shield). +20 fana, +20 zeal, rest into sacrifice.
I know my gear and stats are bad but it’s budget. The crescent moon was made into a PB as I got desperate and careless at the time of needing it. I do have a Black runeword on swap but only for act bosses as the knockback is annoying against trash mobs and weak. Crescent moon has been very useful but has drastically fallen off since Black marsh Act 1 Hell (good against countess but not the trash mobs before her, quite weak)
I need something to progress more efficiently and NM farming is bad due to no MF to match kill speed. My MF can reach 121% but my dmg against Andy, Meph, Diablo and Baal drops massively in difference, not worth it as time is lost.
I am currently doing this on console at the moment which imo is worse than the PC version due to not being able to attack the right enemy or collect the item that drops whilst being attacked. Believe me, alot of mobs out run any of my characters even with 40%+ faster run/walk speed aside from my Barb (who is way too weak at the moment).
I play console due to being on the go and my laptop running out of battery twice as fast as my Steam Deck. I do enjoy this game very much but hell is too much for any character I possess.
I did a test last year and it worked but not in a good way to a degree. I noticed when I got to hell (pc version) with my sorc every single champion/elite pack was immune to what ever element she used even if it was dual element (ice - fire/light etc). When I did a respec into something else to counter that immunity, same map or different it straight away changed the packs into that immunity to counter that next build I made.
Has anyone else in all seriousness had this happen? I think in a way it’s a good and challenging mechanic (if it is mean’t to do that) but when under geared or not prepared it is a very unfair mechanic tbh.
I might just make an oath in the 4 socket PB that I found the other day as 4 socket PB don’t have much use outside of making a Spirit. I understand Oath is best in an eth weapon but tbh, I will most likely get back those runes faster than I will get the ones needed for a better runeword.
Yep totally get the concern there. I worry that Lawbringer wouldn’t be much of an upgrade for you over CM PB, as it has rather low base damage, but the decrep and sanct are definitely nice, I’m not sure it makes up for the loss of static and the decent IAS and %ED CM has, but it would be the least impacted by the base.
Some reasons that CM PB has run out of steam now that you’re in Hell are likely:
Static Field is lightning damage and can be effected by resistances. The monsters in Hell in general have more lightning resistance than their NM counterparts.
The big one - Static does a flat damage of 25% (not including resistances) of a monsters current health every cast, so it can drop health very quickly, however in NM it cannot go beyond 33% monster health, and in Hell that’s reduced further to only being able to drop a monster to 50% health.
So in conjunction with the base damage struggling to keep up with the higher HP monsters, the Ace in the hole of Static Field also is less effective now.
I did some quick math to try to compare your CM PB to a potential Oath Knout (the only 4 OS weapon you’ve mentioned).
Not knowing the CM roll you got, I did both min and max ED rolls. A 180%ED roll should bring a PB to 86.8 to 98 damage, 92.4 average. A 220 roll would make it 99.2 - 112, 105.6 average. A PB is also -30 base speed, and CM gives 20% IAS, bringing you to -50 speed.
A hypothetical Oath in a non-eth Knout would be 40.3 min damage, 108.5 max damage, 74.4 average damage, assuming the lowest 210% ED roll. With a max ED roll of 340%, that would be 57.2 to 154 damage, the same 105.6 average damage as a max %ED CM PB. Knout is -10 base speed, but gets a hefty 50% IAS from Oath, so it would be down to -60 speed, which is faster than the PB. This difference may or may not matter for your actual attack rate depending on the level of Fant you were able to achieve and the other IAS you may have. You can use this calculator to see your attack rate: D2 IAS Calculator
So it seems like an Oath in a non-eth Knout is pretty much a wash for you at least in terms of base damage wise, best case %ED roll, and may be a loss. It may be slightly faster (pending what your overall character can achieve) but you then also lose the static cast proc, which will likely be a pretty significant damage loss.
Death in your 5 socket Ettin Axe may be an option, but I would not want to burn a Vex in making a Death in a non eth base, especially given where you are and being SP.
How is your chance to hit by the way? Character level vs. Target Monster level plays a large roll, and being only lvl 65, you’re a bit under-leveled. I play nearly exclusively online so have the advantage of being able to level in public games, but for my melee characters I usually stay in NM Baal runs until mid 70s to get better chance to hit. The extra stat and skill points will also help you out.
Are you able to run NM Baal at >P1 difficulty and still get good XP there? It may be worth it to level up a bit more in NM to make this easier, especially if you’ll be “stuck” with your CM PB a while.
Given the above I think you will be disappointed if you try to make Lawbringer or Oath in any of your current bases, and based on your concern about wasting runes, I personally feel trying to make Death would be a waste.
A non-eth Ettin Axe would end up with 132-264 damage 198 average, with a 300% ED roll and 158.4 - 316.8, 237.6 average with a 380% ED max roll though, plus it has the awesome Deadly Strike and Crushing Blow, so it does seem like it would be a worthwhile upgrade. Crushing Blow acts sort of like static, and Deadly Strike is a chance to do double damage. It is +10 speed though, so you’d likely attack slower. That may be acceptable with zeal+fant though, especially given you are wearing Treachery with the massive 45% IAS bonus.
For reference based on my calcs an ethereal Ettin Axe with Death would be 198-396 damage, 297 average, with a 300% ED roll and 237.6-475.2 damage, 356.4 average, with a 380% perfect ED roll, so that gives you an idea of the damage you’re losing by rolling Death in a non-eth. Over 100 average weapon damage. I didn’t math it out but Oath would be similar.
So I think Death in a non-eth Ettin Axe would likely be a big upgrade for you, however only you can decide if the “right now” progression is worth burning Vex and Gul in a non-ideal base.
Each monster has specific elements that it’s resistant and immune to, based on difficulty level and area it appears in, but it has no correlation to your damage type and isn’t random. For instance Fallen enemies are Fire Immune, while Corrupt Rouges are Cold Immune.
That said some enemies like the succubi change based on where they appear/their name, since monster assets/types are re-used in a few places. A Succubus is Fire Immune, a Vile Temptress is Poison Immune, a Stygian Harlot is Lightning Immune, a Hell Temptress is Physical Immune, and a Blood Temptress is also Poison Immune like a Vile Temptress.
Fallen and Corrupt Rogues are Fire and Cold Immune, respectively, regardless of which “name” they are, so they should be consistent across zones in Hell.
is it possible that’s what you’re running into?
Agreed 4 OS PB has less use, however PB also has pretty low base weapon damage, and the benefit of Oath is the large %ED, so I’d say PB is “double bad” since it can’t be eth and it has pretty low base damage. It DOES have way better min and thus average damage than a Knout though, and is faster, so I suppose if you’ve gotta make Oath with the bases you have now, making it in a PB would be better than Knout.
I’m calculating that would end up being 96.1-108.5 damage, 102.3 average with the minimum 210% ED roll, and 136.4-154 damage, 145.2 average, with the best 340% ED roll. So quite a bit better than your current CM PB likely, but you’d lose the static proc, which would be more difficult to math out.
If your current CM PB rolled max damage though, it would be 99.2-112 and if you roll worst damage on the new Oath, you’d be looking at 96.1-108.5, so depending on how your rolls end up, it may actually not be much better.
I do agree that the Oath runes are easier to come by than the Death ones though! So you’ve got quite the decision!
Dont oath a pb. Pbs have too low base dmg for ed mods to provide any meaningful benefit to a physical melee build.
Grief is an exception as it relies on flat dmg not ed. Find a cryptic sword if you insist on 1 hand swords. Also eth is best for oath but i understand with offline ssf that can take longer to find than the runes for oath itself.
Pbs is great for speed but for your build if you are maxing fana, cryptic sword will give a good speed bps with a healthy dose of damage. Another downside is repair…
If youre not fussed on swords, ettin axes are also serviceable as a temp even with crescent moon in it.
With the exception of Death those are all transitional rune words that will easily get you to Hell Baal, but to 99 as fast as possible in the original game, it required a different rune word strategy - Grief, BotD or Death. From 95 to 99 the only monsters that gave significant experience were Diablo, Nilhathak and Baal. Nilhathak is very squishy but Diablo and Baal require good amounts of CB and Max damage to cut them down quick. Since the game doesn’t work that way anymore you want a weapon that will clear TZs the fastest, and that weapon is Grief. That said, the runes it cost to make all these weapons (except BotD) are not overly rare. Use what you have, you’ll be finding a lot more. clvl 65 isn’t even 1/100th of the way to 99.