Unique quiver idea for Physical Bowazons

General Discussion
1

I had a fun idea I wanted to share with the devs for a new unique item for bowazons. A unique quiver with the following stats:

  • Replenishes quantity
  • Damage increased by 10% for every yard between you and the closes monster up to 100%
  • Chance to pull monsters together (pixel stacking)
  • Increase attack speed by X%
  • Converts X% of damage dealt to magic damage.

I thought about this item because bowazons lose out on an offhand weapon stats stick. I wanted something that was custom made for the amazon and her skills.

The damage increase by range compliments a playstyle for players wanting to “snipe” from long range.

The chance to pull enemies together is a really fun mechanic that goes beyond adding power to her kit, it adds a new functionality through board control.

I would love to have an item like this in a future patch once Blizzard finishes prioritizing their checklist of things they want to do first.

Replenish quantity is a quality-of-life mod for her since you want to have very fast attack speed which eats up her arrows resource.

The physical damage to magic damage conversion is a powerful mod that scales to her weapon throughout her leveling process. I believe this will be balanced because there will always be a hard cap on the total magic damage output because let’s be honest, low-level bow damage is lacking when used with low level physical skills :slight_smile:

I think this should be a low to mid-level item to help the amazon through her leveling process if you want to level with physical bow skills. All these mods scale with weapon damage and in my honest opinion, I think low level bows/crossbows updates fell behind a long time ago. I also think these mods complement her playstyle and provide interesting mechanics to her kit, both for single player and group play.

This was just a fun idea I wanted to throw out there to perhaps inspire the dev’s to create something fun for a future patch :grin:

2

So like D3 quivers only even more powerful? Seems extremely broken…yes bowazons lose out on offhand weapon stat stick, but that is already factored into their skills, and bow balance, and the fact they’re ranged physical attacks, and etc. If quivers were ever to be implemented in such a way as you suggest, they would have to do a massive amount of balancing not just to Amazons and bow skills and bows in general, but they’d have to take into consideration all classes as well. I just don’t see it happening, sorry…most that will ever happen will be magic/rare quivers (and maybe a few unique ones, but nowhere near the power level you suggested), but even those I doubt will come to fruition. It would just be a major headache all around.

I’ll give you props that it’s fun to think about and discuss, though.

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Well thank you for being respectful. D3 does have unique quivers, but the damage outputs are vastly different. I am more interested in introducing fun game mechanics that complement certain playstyles and that also scale with current weapon damage to keep balance favorable.

I don’t know if you remembered this but way back in the early day’s monsters used to be a lot weaker. Bowazons physical skills could easily one-shot tough monsters with ease. Monsters got buffed and bow skills got nerfed hard. On top of that to make matters worse, bows lagged behind in damage upgrades which effectively nerfed bowzons physical skills damage even more. We never had synergies back then, just now we are seeing synergies being introduced to MS.

The argument that the bowazon is a ranged class and therefore should be toned down, is not one that I would use, a sorceress or necromancer also have ranged attacks that can do way more damage than any physical bow skill could ever hope to achieve with much less gear invested.

So yes, I agree with you that they would need to balance (update) a lot of things and I think they should start by balancing low level bows (they have not for the most part been touched since they were first introduced [back when monsters used to be weaker] and are lacking in updates to contend with the added toughness) as they are not very useful when compared to spirit runeword or other decent uniques. I like to have options while levelling up with my physical bowazon :slight_smile:

I like my idea because it’s not a flat damage upgrade, it scales with current weapon damage. It adds a fun game changing mechanic to her playstyle and to her core kit.

I had another idea for bolts quiver where the closer the monster was to you the faster your attack speed would increase by, but the further the monster was the harder you would hit. This would add an interesting play mechanic that allows the player to choose how they want to engage their target(s) based on their build/gear and playstyle. I don’t like to add flat damage only, I much rather introduce mechanics like GA pierce because it looks cool and its iconic to her role and our memory of her when we were younger :wink:

It may be a headache for some, but for others (content creators), it may provide a fun opportunity to test things out, theory craft and create fun and interesting builds that can potentially synergize with other idle sleeper builds. :blush:

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At some point I think we need to stop. Quivers are not a problem that need fixing. Being ranged is in itself stronger than melee and Amazon has access to aoe damaging missile attacks as well.

The only problem left to fix is the problem of Crossbows being overall worse than bows in every situation. We should focus on Crossbows, not increase the overall power creep of bowzon.

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I wouldn’t mind a quiver that just had infinite arrows. :smiley:

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Personally I’d wish they’d stop trying to buff Bowazon. It’s one of my favorite builds already and the games already too easy.

I was already hoping for something like an extra difficulty… not making it even easier. Bowazon already clears every area in the game with minimal effort, it’s fine. Strafe kills 1 shots non boss mobs, and clears 2 screens worth of mobs in a few MS’s… what more does it really need?

I avoid hammerdins for a reason… for the love of god don’t make every build a hammerdin.

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PD2 did this. Made quivers magic items with bonus stats.
And unlimited ammo.
One of the better changes to bowazon

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These are interesting ideas. The distance scaling with distance reminds me of Zei’s vengeance, a D3 gem.

Personally, I’d suggest going with the points into the crit skill granting an increasing chance to replenish arrow/spear durability/quantity on crit. Which would be consistent with throw mastery update in 2.4. I can understand the opposite view of introducing too much power creep so I try to stick with QoL changes which should have a wider appeal including the new spearazon. I do like your ideas, just trying to stay cautious.

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9

Why stop good things from happening?

We never said they themselves were, but they are an opportunity to enhance the characters kit. If anything is to blame, it’s the two-handed bows/crossbows. Not only do they not offer comparable stats to the BIS single handed weapons/runewords of this game, but they also penalize her by giving her another resource to manage, arrows and bolts.

Yes, in my original post, I did state that bows (including crossbows) do need to be revisited and updated to be more viable for the historically buffed monsters. I was careful to be mindful of power creep, yet you still feel that these changes will add to power creep. :frowning: My mods scale with current weapon damage and playstyles. They free up slots for her incredibly expensive end game gear slots allowing for different gear options to have longer usage.

Good for you, you can play the way you want to, other players may not feel the same way as you do and that’s ok too.

To reach this level of power in hell mode, you need good gear whereas other ranged classes don’t have too as much. They literally can snap their fingers completely naked and things can die in hell mode :joy:

I want this class to be less gear dependent so that it is more attractive to new players to try out. Her skills should complement her weapons, not penalize us for using them (Eg -25% damage penalty) Other ranged classes can output way more damage and have natural skills that complement they damage type. Example Corp Explosion with Amp damage, Sorc elemental damage + Elemental mastery.

I wanted to add a fun game mechanic that would not add too much to power creep, yet provide her with a fun and interesting playstyle for players to use if they choose to.

This statement to me implies that this item or idea will lead the Amazon to become the next hammerdin. :face_with_raised_eyebrow: For that to happen, she would need a massive boost in power, way more than what I mentioned. No, what I am suggesting is a game mechanic that scales with current weapon damage, so the damage is always capped to her current abilities. The better you play the more damage you can squeeze out, that to me is a good mechanic.

I don’t disagree with that. If the barb is getting it why not the Amzon. A good change is a good one!

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Juss play d3 >.>
Last thing this game needs is more buffs

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Actually it very much matters to me because of the WAY I feel. I don’t want ANYTHING making D2 easier. If anything I’d like to see every build struggling to clear act 3 hell.

Games just too easy. Stop buffing things. It’s going to get boring soon.

Every build that gets buffed is just one less fun build.

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I already do, and yes I play other games as well, which gives me a good perspective on this subject matter.

With all due respect, your feelings are not and should not impede on other people’s enjoyment of their game. Thank you for your feedback. :wink:

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Sure it should. There are other games they can play if they find D2 too difficult.

Half the posts on these boards are “game too hard buff this.” The other half are “sorc’s pallies too op, nerf.”

If 2 classes make the game trivial, then nerf the ones that make it trivial, don’t buff all the others into making the game trivial.

Or even better… just leave it alone. It’s not like a steam game where I can pick my patch level. I paid for D2R… not D3.

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That’s presupposing that it’s a good thing. Which is very much up for debate. Why not make respecs easy and free? That’s a good thing, right? Why not make level 99 10x easier to reach? That’s a good thing, right? Why not buff sets to be more like D3 sets? That’s a good thing, right? Why not make items soulbound and remove trading, then increase the loot drop chances/rates, like in D3? That’s a good thing, right? All this to say, what you think is a good thing, and what is actually a good thing, can often be very different. It’s difficult to quantify just how much the game as been made easier and more accessible already. At a certain point, it ceases to be Diablo 2 anymore. There are already mods to play in legacy D2 that do all sorts of crazy stuff people like you might enjoy. But for the rest of us, we’d prefer leaving an already good thing alone.

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Just the higher frame rate and response times making projectiles easier to dodge alone have made things so much easier as has the greater visible window size. D2R is an easier game than D2 LoD. Like you I’m just on the train of “eventually, it’s going to not be D2 anymore.”

I WANTED to like D3… hell I own 4 different copies of the game over various platforms. I just couldn’t. It got about 120 hours of play from me and never got touched again. Anything that pushes D2 down the D3 path is a huge NOPE from me.

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While we are at it, can we make interesting and more powerful throwing potions?
With throwing barb being made viable I kinda wanted to try a potion barb.

Dose find potion also include the throwing variety?

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I’m not going to lie… I do actually find this idea hilarious. Could be fun as long as they… well kinda still sucked. Just being possible to eventually clear the game would be enough to make it worth doing once.

I’m not against change… just against changes that make things easier. Changes that add extra challenges… I’m all for.

Honestly I’d even like to see extra difficulties, or even a setting between HC and SC where you had a set number of lives. You’d still be on SC… but you’d have a separate title.

Content is good… removal of challenge… not so much.

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18

another post about arrows/bolts/quantity… another spot for cool unique opportunities… will we ever get them? who knows. these topics will never die until they come though, they are far to common and understood. I wish they’d bring in those options, then adjusted the skills dmg.

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That is what I hope happens. I want D2R to be as different from LOD as possible, for it to be an organic evolution of the classic which is currently preserved for players who don’t want any changes.

Blizzard did right by its fans to preserve D2LOD, they learned from their lessons on how they managed Warcraft 3.

This could be an interesting mechanic that can be improved and expanded upon. :+1:

I don’t think so. But currently throwing mastery does give a chance to not consume a throwing potion and replenish it :wink: Lets go throwing barb alchemist! lol

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Your first 2 statements contradict each other badly.