It’s occurred to me that I need to update this post. I’ve always thought that the Amazon and the Assassin needed to be fundamentally statistically different from each other, such as having differing life per vitality point values, but that seems to not be the case. I realized that fast two handed spears are no different than a set of claws that can block. Even though there is a difference of stat requirement between the two, I think they balance out to the same speed. And if not then it’s still probably an accurate insight.
So the Amazon and Assassin both starting out with 3 LPV is probably fine. But I think that as each of them invests into their decoy and shadows that their life per vitality point could drop down to as low as 2 while gaining an elemental mastery bonus for bow and martial art skills. The mastery should be some kind of low scaling gain, not merely a flat %. But if the Amazon starts investing points into Valkyrie then she should start to lose that bonus while her LPV comes back up to as much as 3 upon full Valkyrie investment. The assassin should be able to have both of her shadows out at once, but neither of them should be able to cast fade. Once again, a faded shadow implies nothing, or even the light of the already shining Valkyrie. No tanky shadows. Rely on cobra-strake to keep their life up. And the Assassin should have a secondary special relationship with boots where a varying % of the Amazon’s Avoid would be a natural stat. No dodge or evade.
But there you go. The Barbarian had to sacrifice defense to become a pseudo-soloist as a fundamental supporter. The Amazon and the Assassin should have to sacrifice to become pseudo dependents or “individually limited cooperative generalizers” if you like the salad. Now the only thing that would be lacking is the sacrifice of the Sorceress to become a pseudo-support. And it’s practically already in place considering the amount of mana that she has to spend for enchant. But just do a flat % of maximum mana cost for enchant per cast which naturally diminishes the “energy shield” potential so to speak.
And the solution is to just reduce the Amazon’s life per vitality point down to 2 or 2.5 while she gains a 33% or 16% damage buff to both jav/spear and bow skills depending on which value she drops her life down to. The Valkyrie becomes 33% or 16% less durable accordingly.
The 2.5 life per vitality point is probably the correct answer in order to maintain some kind of grace of differential by statistical variation of identity in the soloist, support, specialist , trinity of roles.
But the conclusion is, what can you sacrifice from Valkyrie without Valkyrie losing her position?
But it also might be true that bow skills would have a natural offensive mastery to them in particular, but when points are invested into Valkyrie, that offensive mastery bonus could be reduced down to 0 through out investment into the Valkyrie skill…
It has to be about both the Amazon and the Valkyrie separately and proportioned because neither the Sorceress or the Barbarian have a natural summon that is “stronger than a hireling” -arreat summit
This also means that it has to be about the decoy skill as well I’d say.
The more damage that the Amazon does at a distance, even if it is by sacrificing defense, also has to yield a corresponding durability reduction of the Valkyrie and Decoy.
The bowazon and javazon have both always suffered from a damage deficiency problem, but our only solution has been to just add synergy buffs to a physical warrior ability which is not proper for a physical warrior ability. But it’s probably not as bad as the fact that Tornado from the Druid has always been a pure physical damage skill, which is just pathetic.
Here’s the perfect example. Imagine that the Assassin never had any synergies between elemental skills with martial arts. We return to this game years later in D2R. We decide to put those synergies in the game because it’s more acceptable to do this with elemental skills because elemental resists are more common than physical on hell difficulty. But the problem is that the Assassin has access to multiple element types in one skill tree so this guide doesn’t matter. If the % of the synergies end up scaling the offensive output like a mastery then the Assassin will have to drop in life per vitality point. Once again we arrive to the values of 2 or 2.5. But for the Assassin it seems more acceptable to drop down to 2 life per vitality, especially considering the distance that traps can hit from and that she has claw mastery to steal life more consistently than a 1 handed hero AND she has block.
The only thing that would be missing from the Assassin is a special relationship with boots. And… oh look at that, the Assassin already has a special relationship with boots. so what’s Blizzard’s excuse now? But that special relationship does not provide any evasion in the fashion of Avoid. I say Avoid and not Dodge or Evade because it seems like the philosophy of the Assassin has to be a hit and run. Well she already does this. Charge up on small mobs and then hit and run the larger more condensed mobs with a finisher.
Some are going to argue that the Bowazon would have a scaled output(mastery) of elemental damage on 2.5 life per vitality point as a ranged hero while the Assassin would be at 2 life per vitality point as a melee, but remember that the Bowazon could completely lose that buff with max Valkyrie. On the other hand the Assassin does have weapon block and let’s say that the Assassin doesn’t have scaled damage for martial arts and still has 3 life per vitality point to start. Let’s say though that as she invests skill points into shadows, her life starts to slowly drop to 2 life per vitality point and reaches 2 when either shadow is maxed. During this time she’s been GAINING the scaled elemental damage output for her martial arts and an enhanced relationship with boots that increases a % chance to Avoid. Fade could go back to the old and tiger strike would not be affected by investment into shadows.
I think the Assassin should also be able to have both shadows out at once. But maybe they should not have access to fade. What happens when a shadow fades? It becomes nothing. Instead the Assassin should focus on gear to enhance her shadows and getting in cobra strake charges to keep the shadows going…
If you are a ranged hero and can repeatedly cast a tanky summon out in front of you while doing high amounts of AOE/Pierce damage from behind then you have an advantage over other heroes.
It’s that simple.
Don’t worry though, you’re making me proud with your contribution and everyone else can say the same.
Yeah if you can cast battle orders you have a high health advantage.
If you can cast teleport you have a mobility advantage.
If you can cast holy shield, you have a block advantage.
If you can cast walls you have a utility advantage.
I dunno, I don’t think its a HUGE advantage, and more a class thing/trait.
Druid can cast bear. Necro can cast golem. Both have ranged abilities that can pierce/aoe.
The guy is saying that amazons should have less health but deal more damage, then he dragged the valkyrie skill into the discussion because he doesn’t understand that individual skill power is separate from stat values in term of balance. This was apparent in his leading statement that amazon’s vit should be worth less health but for skills that deal 33% more damage.
Holy shield grants 2 frame block animation. What other class gets that. Barb can get 3, but thats if you wear Gangel templar and a shael’d whitstan’s guard.
I didn’t know amazon gets that. However, amazon gets dodge/evade/avoid, and 75% block.
I still don’t know where this thread is going. You claim amazon has a dps increase because of valk?
I thought it would clearly be the % bonus from synergies of Charged strike or Lightning fury.
We must clearly nerf the health of the amazon, because that will cause her to do less damage!
Like, I just don’t know what you are trying to advocate, in correlation to what you claim the topic is about, yet talk about something unrelated.
Another wonderful post by a resident of the most hardcore d2r 24/7 online group of these forums! claymore12, ArchSeaWitch, Stanner, RandyBoggs, Bravata, Anu, PlasticSea & UitGoS, tremendous players with very good perception of reality!!
True, not only do they get an invincible valkyrion they can summon infinitely they also get the decoy which is ridiculous too. They get to sit back and do infinite damage because of it. Their life should be balanced
LOL! This is why the Barbarian sacrifices all of his armor down to 0 to convert his physical damage into enhanced pure damage right!?
How dumb do people sound around here when they say things like this in order to make themselves seem like they are the Daddy/Father figure of a video-game forum when they also don’t even have anything to show for it. I’m your dad because I never ramble incoherently like you do! DERP.
You mean Berserk? Are you saying that the existence of single skill is proof that barbarians as an entire class are balanced around having zero defense after attacking? That would be an awfully stupid thing to believe. It’d be almost as stupid as conflating the defense stat with stat point values, considering that defense is overwhelmingly and primarily acquired through gear and buffs.
It’d be wild if you applied actual game knowledge to your ramblings.
I explained why I’m not wrong and why your ideas are psychosis babble. Taking one detail about a class and using it as justification for how the entire class should be balanced is something called “reaching”. You’re conflating unrelated details to draw wild conclusions. Those are called “ramblings”.
Whether or not amazon weapon skills needs more damage has very little to do with the individual power of valkyrie. How much health amazon gets per point of vit has very little to do with their weapon skills damage. Finally, a barb’s overall yield from assigned stats has very little to do with berserk specifically.
As you can see, you’ve decided to drag LPH into the conversation, again as if it has anything to do with the discussion so far, or even the discussion that you seem to be having your head. You panic grab at random details to try and prove that whatever it is that you just said isn’t completely incoherent.
lol, someone get this pride-boy out of here please. The faith-man can’t take it anymore.
Uh, 16%, that’s quite a small value when talking about one skill and not an entire class there pride-boy.
Updated Op:
It’s occurred to me that I need to update this post. I’ve always thought that the Amazon and the Assassin needed to be fundamentally statistically different from each other, such as having differing life per vitality point values, but that seems to not be the case. I realized that fast two handed spears are no different than a set of claws that can block. Even though there is a difference of stat requirement between the two, I think they balance out to the same speed. And if not then it’s still probably an accurate insight.
So the Amazon and Assassin both starting out with 3 LPV is probably fine. But I think that as each of them invests into their decoy and shadows that their life per vitality point could drop down to as low as 2 while gaining an elemental mastery bonus for bow and martial art skills. The mastery should be some kind of low scaling gain, not merely a flat %. But if the Amazon starts investing points into Valkyrie then she should start to lose that bonus while her LPV comes back up to as much as 3 upon full Valkyrie investment. The assassin should be able to have both of her shadows out at once, but neither of them should be able to cast fade. Once again, a faded shadow implies nothing, or even the light of the already shining Valkyrie. No tanky shadows. Rely on cobra-strake to keep their life up. And the Assassin should have a secondary special relationship with boots where a varying % of the Amazon’s Avoid would be a natural stat. No dodge or evade.
But there you go. The Barbarian had to sacrifice defense to become a pseudo-soloist as a fundamental supporter. The Amazon and the Assassin should have to sacrifice to become pseudo dependents or “individually limited cooperative generalizers” if you like the salad. Now the only thing that would be lacking is the sacrifice of the Sorceress to become a pseudo-support. And it’s practically already in place considering the amount of mana that she has to spend for enchant. But just do a flat % of maximum mana cost for enchant per cast which naturally diminishes the “energy shield” potential so to speak.
You definitely said all bow and jav skills, even in your update:
See, right there. Still has nothing to do with how strong valkyrie is. I hope you have good doctors, or if don’t , then I hope you’re able to meet one.
