Teleport in Shapeshift

While the devs were presenting the druid changes on MrLlama’s stream, they discussed the new ability to cast buffs in shapeshift form which led to the question whether Teleport would work in shapeshift form. I was excited to hear they weren’t sure --not an immediate no! Therefore, going into PTR I was most excited to see if Teleport in shapeshift form functioned. Alas, not yet.

However, it’s apparent the devs are listening to the community so I want to shoot my shot: allowing Teleport in shapeshift form is a simple change with big, positive impact to the overall game.

Shapeshifting as is needs love and this change would be a great way to do just that. It opens up exciting new gameplay and build options in general. Although, the most notable improvement is in the PvP scene. Melee is already at a disadvantage in PvP with today’s current meta but what helps level the playing field is the ability to telestomp. Unfortunately, without this ability shapeshift builds are further handicapped and mostly removed from the PvP scene from what I have seen.

Beyond just the druid, this change would improve the viability of builds such as Bear Sorc and Wolf Barb. Personally, I play a Bear Sorc which is the source of my bias. The reason why it’s such an exciting prospective change to me is because it would greatly improve the quality of life while playing this character. Although as is its gameplay is quite clunky largely due to the need to uncast shapeshift to Teleport.

I get why there’s hesitation: the shapeshift buff shouldn’t be too powerful. If Teleport is allowed then where is the line drawn for casted spells? And personally, I think there’s a case to be made for allowing all spells in shapeshift form although in that scenario, I’d advocate for revised/slower faster cast rate breakpoints in shapeshift form. From a fantastical and game balance perspective, that makes the most sense to me. For the fantastical point of view, casting spells on top of another spell (shapeshift) would likely be more draining and as a result casting is slower. For the gameplay perspective, casting in shapeshift isn’t as powerful in human form, sacrificing speed for survivability essentially. However, I get that is opening up a can of worms and a more hefty revision to the game’s current meta. Instead, I suggest adding Teleport as just one more skill to the new set of skills able to be cast in shapeshift form. This change would result in the most positive impact for the least effort and disruption to the game’s existing mechanics.

Let the dogs out Blizz. Werebear and Werewolf need some love in the form of Teleport.

pls

8 Likes

100% yes.

There is no logical reason why WW and WB shouldn’t be allowed to use a generic mobility skill granted to all melee classes through enigma.

I would draw the line though at allowing them to cast other damage spells. Their attacks should be limited to their own class skills.

4 Likes

Probably limited to SS attacks. Every wind or fire Druid would put a point into werebear just for the life boost.

2 Likes

That’s why I was thinking it would make sense for their casting rate to be slowed down in these forms. You can shift for the additional life but you’ll be slow and as a result less casting DPS. I totally get that’s a different conversation than just allowing teleport though.

Just giving teleport seems like an easy win to me though.

1 Like

Teleport needs to be looked at in general to be useful but not the main goal post for most builds. Sure, it’s fun, enables many builds, but it’s honestly like playing the game in some kind of Debug Mode.

Until they correct some things with Teleport, I do think the less it’s used the way it currently is, the better things will be overall.

2 Likes

personaly i think enigma is very bad for the game

on the other side of the coin op is a pvp player without teleport 95% of the time your build will be useless in pvp without enigma , nice meta where you have no choice and option and enigma is your only option , bias player are in deny but this topic expose the issue enigma cause too the game

2 Likes

Teleport needs to be removed from Enigma and there needs to be a cooldown added for Sorc (more hard points in skill can reduce CD).

While we are at it, remove all teleport charge items.

3 Likes

If teleport is allowed on SS it would be a huge balance issue for PVP.

Imagine a ss wolf that has 10K HP, 46% DR 48-64 FHR fury damage 14k and attack range of 5 teleports right in front of you, how would you feel?

as much as you hate and/or don’t care about it, pvp is a thing in D2

1 Like

Imagine every other class teleporting on top of you in full dueling setups… oh wait, they already do.

5 Likes

For sure… If devs let bears teleport, druids with enigma (or teleport staff) will become the #1 Baal runners. 1-pt Werebear = 95% more HP plus about 90-110% more def (depending on +all skills)

Tbf, I main Druid, so I wouldn’t be against that if that’s what the community thinks is good for the game :man_shrugging:. People (and content creators) keep saying they want it over and over, without thinking about or discussing the wider rammifications…

My opinion is you’re not really buffing SS druids if you do this - you are in fact buffing fire and wind druids.

Again, I am a druid, so I don’t mind this, I’m just being brutally honest…

Plus we have quick cast now… I set my shapeshift skill to one of my side mouse buttons… When I want to teleport, I just press the side button, and then I can teleport as much as I want, so either way, it has no impact in my opinion. Many complaints about class imbalance come from casual players - if you main that class, perfect it’s hotkeys, learn the rotations, build your skill levels, a lot of these difficulties fall away… I personally like that druid is a harder class to master than a sorc or a pally, I don’t think D2R should be simplified like this…

You are literally a druid that has just transformed into a bear, you have no mental consciousness of being a human, your instincts are that of a wild animal… Wild animals don’t use magical items or know how to cast spells. When the druid is in SS form, he is struggling against that primal nature, and so sacrifices his ability to cast spells. That’s how I envisage SS form - and I think this is the original RPG logic the original Blizzard team had when they created D2R…

The other thing to consider is Sorcs and Barbs have better FCR breakpoints than druids, so what will their FCR frames be in SS form?

I know popular opinion says “we want tele-bears”, but I don’t think it would be better to buff feral rage (so the wolf can run faster) and buff the werebear somehow (add a charge animation to his maul attack so he can get in range faster, like Dragon Flight for bears…)

:point_up: These changes would lead to a much better and more interesting outcome than adding WW/WB build to the long list of character builds who BiS Armour is Enigma…

My brutally honest opinion on this…

1 Like

I like the idea of giving shapeshifting more mobility but idk about through enigma. I’d really rather not be forced to build one on a SS druid. How about adding vigor to Fortitude?

3 Likes

I get that Enigma has created a dilemma for the game, especially in PvP, where most setups without it suffer. Like it or not, that’s the current meta. I liked someone else’s earlier suggestion of a cooldown on teleport. However, until Enigma/Teleport is nerfed though, it’s a damn near requirement to keep up. Not allowing certain builds access to it isn’t addressing the Enigma issue since the majority of meta builds use Enigma.

If shapeshifters can cast spells without ramifications they would definitely be 1-pointers other druid builds would incorporate. That’s exactly why I suggested slower cast rates in shapeshift form. Interestingly enough, shapeshift forms currently have quicker cast rates than their human form counterpart. Although I think this would need to be slowed in the case of a change like this. If cast rates are slower in shapeshift form it wouldn’t be as an appealing option for a more caster oriented build. This would be in addition to the wasted skill points. I think a Druid opting for a shapeshift caster, sacrificing speed for survivability, is a totally valid, and interesting path. In the case of a Baal run though, I’m going to choose a faster caster than what I envision for a shapeshift caster.

Someone else asked what the Bear Sorc’s FCR breakpoints would be; the answer is it would be the same as the bear/wolf form for the Druid. That’s currently how faster hit recovery and such work. When a character shapeshifts into Werebear/Werewolf the character adopts its breakpoints, no matter the class.

Logic is pretty simple; if the worst melee build doesn’t deserve Enigma than neither does any other build.

Fairly simple to follow correct? :rofl:

2 Likes

Imagine if the attack was unblockable and always hits, also you have faster fcr. Ah nvm, I am talking about tele smite. Or imagine charging for insta teleport and maintaining 75 block while stunning opponent and also you have high defense. PvP Paladin is OP as hell.

Tele fury wouldn’t be that OP, but giving us a skill FRW passive or some kind of gap closer like charge would make SS Druid at least more competitive

2 Likes

Yeah I forgot that… So Druid has an 11 frame breakpoint at 99% FCR (pretty standard for Druids). In WB/WW form, 99% FCR corresponds to 10 frame cast rate… So yeah, again, letting bears and werewolves teleport is complicated, and basically if the let WB/WW teleport, it means that every wind/fire druid is gonna put 1-pt into WB/WW so that they can 1. Teleport faster, and 2. Get a lot of +life to make teleporting safer.

Again, people aren’t thinking of the greater ramifications to the game when they suggest these things.

Is every druid exploiting this to teleport faster/safer good? Will Amazons exploit this to boost their terrible FCR frames (Beast Runeword)? Should the devs change the SS FCR breakpoints to fix this? What ramifications does that have? Is it really worth all that mucking around and effort so that bears can teleport? I don’t know :man_shrugging:

1 Like

Teleport in SS would be amazing

1 Like

+1 for allowing teleporting in Werewolf or werebear form.

Every melee build except shape shifting can use this mobility skill, it would allow so many fun off meta PVM builds to farm without feeling super gimped.

2 Likes

I would love to tele while shifted too. Would be nice for farming on my fury druid or bear sorc

If they don’t nerf the cast rate, I can guarantee you 99% of WBs you see in pvp will be wind druids.

2 Likes

stop ruining the game with your spamming teleport