Can some one explain why infinity is okay but sundered charms are not? I see a lot of back and forth but I don’t see people crying to remove infinity.
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I think a big part is the fact that Infinity acts at 1/5th effectiveness on immunes… so the -85% enemy res becomes -17% against immunes. Even a light immune with 100% res will only have their resistances brought down to 83%. Sunder charms removes the immunes and therefore also removes the 1/5th effectiveness penalty on immune monsters so infinity lowers resistances by the full 85%. Throw on top of that cold mastery, which can make any cold immune take twice damage(-100% res) without anything else other than the sunder charm… no infinity or GG gear needed.
This is a huge difference and is why some people think it is too much.
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what frog mike said, + infinity is WAY harder to get.
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I mean you do not know the drop rate of the charm and also there are 6 different types that can pop up once you ident it so it probably won’t be that easy.
I like the change, obv. it needs some tweaks but being able to brake immunes for lets say fire is a huge deal for me, cant want to play with a fire sors.
However cold mastery on top of Sunder charm is too much and should be looked into
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So people are just worried they are buffing ele skills too much. That makes since. More damage makes the game easier so that’s a valid concern. For me I play many different builds and try all manner if gear and equipment. Running into immunes for me means I swap characters and clear it with another. They aren’t obstacles to over come there road blocks I can deal with in better ways. For me bringing an item to the table that allows me to over come that road block is something that would make the game better. Infinity does this for some builds but we lack this option for others. This balances that out and allows for far more choices. Maybe some players will have a bit more damage but depending on the rarity. Given its a level 75 item and needs terrors zones that require you to unlock it I speculate their worth at Ohm rune or Vex but who knows maybe its worth a Jah or higher which means only dedicated players would ever see one anyway. And to be honest a high level group of players is already easily clearing the game in minutes adding a bit more power to builds that would overwise never see gameplay means far more people filling the games that currently sit empty.
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As long as sunder charms are as rare as getting 2x ber runes, they’re fine
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No it’s still not fine. Doesn’t matter how rare they are tbh. You will have one at some point and you must have one, because as strong as they are, they are mandatory.
The problem is not “sundered charms vs infinity”, the problem is the combination of both as Frogmike86 already mentioned. It introduces too much power creep. Plus, immunities are in the game for a reason, because a lot of mechanics and strengths of skills are built around it. Like the sorc for example has the cold mastery skill that works different than the other mastery skills and reduces resistance of monsters. Breaking immunities + reducing resistance is kind of a damage multiplier. Or the fire skills have more base damage than the other skills. That’s why there are more immunes to those two elements in more areas than others and pure cold or fire builds are confined to a few farming areas or you have to come up with hybrid variants, group up with others, etc. That’s the idea of the game and I think that its more interesting than to plain out removing immunities (via those charms) and make everything equal, uniform and most of all: kind of op.
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At the end of the day it all comes down to displaying virtual status…
The peasants are not worthy of access to the content afforded by the gatekeeper halo item…
Case in point
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You say immunities are in the game for a reason, because a lot of mechanics and strengths of skills are built around it. But I remember playing the game with out them and it was better. To me the difficulty feels artificial and limiting. Infinity removes this for some builds others don’t have this limit due to other mechanics. Too me this is a fair option some players will be lucky to get, saying that it’s mandatory isn’t really fair because you don’t know if that is going to be a reasonable goal. It’s fair to say power creep but that doesn’t make it bad. Planning on figuring out what to do with immunes won’t go away just makes the solution an easy choice. The same way Infinity is an easy choice for a lighting element character. You know the solution the problem becomes how rare is this item. The benefits this brings in my opinion out ways the power creep.
Immunes were put in the game to increase build diversity. The devs thought it would make builds more dynamic dual elements being a norm with synergies to make up for the loss of power, but in the end it just stifled it. Players grew pigeon holed into zones and only a handful of builds can clear high player content. To me this change is just adding options to characters that didn’t have these options bringing more players the ability to play in high player count games. If players really cared about immunities, I would expect them to want a nerf to infinity as well. Why allow them to break at all?
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Why would anyone do that?
Charms are new gamebreaking mechanic introduced for bullcrap reasons so we can power creep into new endgame content we don’t even know is fun to play. They go against PTR feedback of TZs being too easy for Hammerdins (their own words) so they made TZs (and also the entire game) too easy for everyone.
For me it’s not even matter of immunity/hammerdin/casters/infinity balance, no matter what’s wrong with it you don’t solve the problem by slapping charm that disable so prevalent game mechanic just so you can farm new content more.
By the way, there WILL be a lot of crying for nerfing Infinity. Because new charms buff it immensely. The aura got over 5 times stronger where you need it most. Your merc wears now 5 infinities instead of one.
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The problem is stacking -res.
Without the charms, you only get 1/5 effect, while with the charms, mobs are set to 95res and infy lowers them 85 + facettes and items like griffon lower them another 5-20 and cold mastery works at full effect, getting immunes in the red before any items equipped.
The damage goes up slightly on infinity but only on things that were immune to begin with. So sure, your damage can be better now but only on that creatures who where immune before. It’s not a blanket increase for all monsters. To me this seams fair an item that can increase damage on one type of resistance, an option that already exist in other forms. I’m not seeing a down side to this.
Slight increase of at least 5x more damage against immunes,
And again, no matter whether Infinity is ok or not, don’t break game mechanic to promote “new” content by slapping bandaid fix pulled out of nowhere at the last minute.
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Yes, I know immunities weren’t in the game from the beginning but they existed in the game for over 20 years (or so) longer than they have not existed in the game, or am I wrong?
But you are right on some parts and it is not so easy to really find the sweet spot how to handle immunities without totally screwing the game.
The charms feel like a rushed and premature choice and it would require much more changes to the game to not make the content too easy and obsolete. And is there enough time to consider all these problems until ladder start?
Do you really think they are capable of reasonably taking in the feedback, balancing and most of all TESTING everything before 6th of October?
The power creep is my biggest concern. Already now when I fully geared my javazon or lightning sorc, in a ladder and I one shot almost a whole screen on players 8, I’m basically done with season and loose interest.
But at least to achieve this, there are several steps and items (e.g. infinity->griffon->enigma) included that I need to aquire and a lot of trading etc. The new sundering GCs will totally shorten this time immensely.
I would be okay if they think of interesting items/runewords that enable also other elemental or damage type builds to farm areas with monsters that are immune against their type. So to say to give them their “infinity”
that is reasonably balanced and tailored towards their elemental strength. Or enhance their capability of hybrid builds, make group play less punishing (right now immunities are one of the few reason to actually group up and farm the same area, not lame split loot farming).
I think there are soooo much more interesting ideas to tackle this problem you are talking about instead of just giving each class/build a similar grand charm (how original) that kind of works the same and introduces unnecessary powercreep which will be hard to undo.
I understand that people get big eyes now when they see new builds like fire sorc etc. obliterating all areas. It will be fun, for a few days, maybe some weeks. But you will get bored of it quite quickly.
Believe me, I play(ed) also D3 for a longer time and I know exactly where this is going. People always want more and more. Will we step into this never ending spiral of power creep again? Are you sure, there are not better options to “balance” this game, make underused classes/builds more viable than these new GCs?
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But merc Infinity affects you when you have sundering charm. Also, I’m mad at Blizzard for this last minute gamebreaking poorly thought out change, and you should be too, even if you are against immunities. There are other ways to get rid of them, starting with properly explaining the idea, rebalancing areas where it can cause balance problems and having enough time to test it on PTR.
What I want to know right now is if a merc’s Infinity or your team’s conviction auras can act for you you after the sunder charm effect … if so then the sunder charm is perfectly worth it. If not, then a 95% resistant monster cannot be damaged effectively.
I do know that I am going to be able to apply cold mastery after the sunder effect which will turn my soon-to-be cold sorceress into a universally capable character, able to bring any monster to between -60 to -100 cold resistance (up to double cold damage on ANYTHING).
The question remains if lighting characters can use the sundering with a follow up of conviction or a curse coming from either the mercenary Infinity or from the team. Also a wand.
Yes, already tested. Conviction from fellow players and infinity works for the player with sundered charm only.
Change cold mastery to +x% damage, problem solved.
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I read in another thread that on sundered enemies infinity on the merc only works with 1/5th penalty , but if the player wears it, it works without penalty.
I think all -res should suffer the 1/5th penalty on formerly immune monsters, sundered or not.
It would still open up a lot of builds, while not completely obliterating the concept of immunes, they would at least still be harder to kill than non-immunes.
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- These charms currently are as rare as gheeds, which isn’t rare at all.
- It makes Cold sorc OP, fire and light are kind of balanced and the other 3 are useless
- Makes the gap between melee/physical builds and elemental builds bigger, not smaller
- Infinity is expensive and takes a slot, even if it’s merc slot that’s still an item slot. As already mentioned, these charms are going to be much easier to obtain, 1 charm, no looking for base/runes and taking a slot.
- Infinity alone isn’t enough for light builds to kill everything. You still need a ton of gear. Currently a light sorc with very little gear and the charm can clear the game. Cold sorc needs no gear, just the charm. Even fire sorc with a simple vex rune will be enough. So, it makes it pretty cheap versus infinity.
If they made a few items that break immunities in a similar way, but were taking a slot and were being as rare as infinity most people would be fine with it.
1 Like