Summon Necro needs something changed

First I say, I am not going to touch Bone spells, because it will lead to massive PvP buffs.

I will just try to compare Druid summon to Necro summons.

Note this was all summoned with max + skill gear on both characters. I swapped Ravenlore when summoning Ravens, from a +6 Grizzly Pelt. And put Pelt back on when summoning Grizzly.
I used Arm of King Leoric on Necro which no endgame necro does, They use Beast.

Druid.

Ravens

Summary

With max + skills gear Druid’s ravens push out over 6k DPS each, cannot die, do not get in the way of other summons and do not require a corpse and just like all other druid summons are summonable on a whim. Ravens dont just peck out eyes-more like eat out brains.

https://i.imgur.com/fiPAscL.png

Ravens alone 5*6000=30k DPS.

Grizzly.

Summary

Then there the 8k DPS Grizzly Bear(8k not counting BearSmite which is a 120% dmg buff with a 2 second Stun).

Dire Wolves

Summary

And the 3x 3k DPS Dire Wolves.

I didnt bother counting the 5x Spirit Wolves that do cold damage or the poison creeper which caps out at like 6k psn DPS. Also dont forget that Wolves and Bears have Range of 2 which lets them attack a target from further away.

Now , the Necromancer.

Skeletons

https://i.imgur.com/7u4WoA3.png

Summary

The only “worthwhile units”. You get 19x of them with max skill gear-19k DPS. They require a corpse which is a hassle.
Range -hardcapped 1 even thought the sabers they hold are the size of those wolves.

Skeletal Mages

Summary

You have to go on Amazonbasin or use some Mage DPS Calculator but im not sure what works with the “updated” 2.4 dmg buff.
They’re just like pretty cheerleaders with pompoms. Undead cheerleaders(especially pretty with new crispy graphics) with glowy pompoms.
Due to minion collision instead of being help, they simply get in the way of Merc/skeletons blocking them from attacking.

Golems
Unlike druid which after 20 years finally got his zoo out, you only get to play with 1.
Not like it matters, though when clay is the only useful one 99% of the time.

Clay Golem

Summary

Unlike a Bone Necro who even with 1 hardpoint clay golem comfortably sits on a 50%+ slow golem, you cannot actually take advantage of Clay Golems overpowered slow ability that activates when monsters hit it or it hits something due to because there are so many minions in the way that golem never gets hit in the first place.

Blood Golem

Summary

Blood Golem is worthless. It should increase maximum life of the summoner by 1% per level like BO or Oak Sage but so it can never be on par. And on death that buff disappears of course. There’s just no other way to make that golem useful.

Iron Golem

Summary

The only other useful of the 4, I am not going to talk about the bug where he gets slaughtered by your own minions or the fact that item dissapears if he or you die (seriously it either needs to be “rehirable” like a merc or pop out the actual item if it dies, impossible to use an expensive runeword).

Im going to talk about how Iron Golem contradicts itself.

First it has self only use Thorns that applies to itself and is always overridden by actual Paladin’s Thorns Aura, even if the Iron Golem skill level is higher or Iron Golem thorns returns more damage. When Thorns is no longer applied, Iron Golem loses its own thorns until new game is created). Even a lvl 1 Thorns Aura would override lvl 50 Golem.

But it never gets hit anyway since you have so many minions- the Thorns aura is moot.

Second, with every skill point spent in Iron Golem, it increases Golem’s defense. Dont you want less defense so it actually gets hit for its Thorns ability?

Third, even if you made your Iron Golem out of a Warpike or Poleaxe which have big range, Golem Range is also capped at 1 like a dagger. Or a skeleton. And that damage synergy that the Fire Golem provides to the Iron Golem doesnt even transfer to a 2h, only 1h.

Fire Golem

Summary

Fire Golem is still also completely worthless as a lvl 30 skill. Its shiny though, and at max level its unsynergized 44 damage Holy Fire Aura can kill Carvers in normal Stony Field in 1 hit on players 8 I suppose…

No other character reiles on merc so much as a summon necromancer.
I DO NOT want to be a Mercomancer or corpse explosionmancer. Any class and character can hire a mercenary.
I want to use my actual skills, and be a summon necromancer, I want to see skeletons tearing things to shreds instead of being useless meatshields.

Other necro skills that need to be mentioned.

Corpse Explosion

Summary

should NOT be a 1 point wonder for summon necros who max it just for range, Instead make it start at 10% corpse life and 5% more with each point. So it takes at least +22 skill points to get it to 120% corpse’s life. Maybe make it scale with players like prior to Patch 1.03, where the damage scaled with the increased monster health in games with other players.

Poison Dagger

Summary

either needs “Poison Enchant” where you can enchant a limited amount of your summons or something like “Poison Weapon” or “Venom 2.0.” Here is my idea.

Curses.

Imho necro curses should be slightly reworked instead of being 1 point god tier skills. Maybe Curse Gcs will finally have a use as well. Every curse should increase in power with a skill point imho…

Example: brainstorming off the top of my head

Life Tap: Starts at 5% leech and gives 5% leech per level then decreases to 2.5% once reaches 50% leech.

Amplify Damage-starts at 50% and gains 10% per level untl reaches 100% then 5% and 2.5% per level

and so forth

Maybe even necro should be able to use 2 curses at once if sufficient hard skill points are invested? (kind of like how Attract and another curse work but Attract is worthless). So you have skills beyond investing the standard of 20 Skeleton 20 Mastery 20 Corpse Explosion 1 Amplify/Decrep/Bone Armor/Golem/Mages.

3 Likes

I understand you just want to do the summon tree but the problem is most people don’t…

Because the necro has corpse explosion and curses their summons can’t be too strong… Otherwise they would be completley broken…

3 Likes

agree on the bloodgolem, a +1% to life would give incentive to use him. maybe even a bit higher magic res (from 20% to 50%) would make him an option for pvp. id love to see something like +1% physical dmg res for iron golem. not sure if that would be op (if es, maybe limit it to hardpoints only?), but it would give a bit motivation to level that golemskill.

not so sure on the curses and corpse explosion thing though. you have to consider the total ammount of skill points needed for a build. i think that it would make the typical summon necro not viable if oyur changes applied.

So i need to take you as a troll

Nothing else is worth reading after that

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Summon Necro needs graves… Graves to necro…

:slight_smile:

Well currently summon druid cannot actually be maxed(you cant max out Poison Creeper and Spirit of your choice at the same time).

Why shouldn’t same be for necro?

2 Likes

because the necro is adjusted to this state right now. you would have to adjust base dmg to skeletons, etc otherwise you nerf him. and i dont see the reason why you should do that, other than wanting to make everything even and the same. and i dont think that adjustment would be a good one

I just wish summons stay between games for a start.

3 Likes

Summon necro is in a really good place. He can clear the entire game with just minions. There is nothing wrong with him other then the mages still suck and he can only use one golem.

Otherwise, he’s still a very good, and very safe character.

2 Likes

Bump after 4 years

You have 100k DPS warlocks who have all of their skills being viable(which can still play ANY hybrid build since locks have enough skillpoints for both both types) asking for more buffs AND have necro curses more or less baked in, druid summoners asking for more buffs, etc

Meanwhile on average-Necroskeletons do 500 DPS each with range 0 and no special, splash, bearsmite stuns or anything.

Instead of being a useless graphical prop have the summoned skeletons actually “equip” a weapon and a shield(only for those that spawn with shields) according to the visual- like the way Iron Golem/Talic/Madawc, Valkyrie and Assasin Master/Warrior work and do.

For normal-Scimitar

For Nightmare-Cutlass

For hell-Atagan(its the lowest DPS 1h sword of all, 36 Avg dmg, and speed doesnt matter since skeletons suffer from 15 AI frame delay). Have it spawn as normal, magic or rare item depending on skillevel of Raise Skeleton

3 Likes

I totally agree with you. I would like to play with a strong golem (and not a huge army) and not rely only on CE, but half the curses are useless, half of minions are not worth. Basically, the minions of necro are like fast food : more is better. Something is wrong when your merc kills faster than 10 skeletons (20 for the skeleton mage).

My level 97 Rogue Scout with Mist MB, Forti and Andy kills groups of mobs faster than my Druid zoo.

This is unthinkable with my summoner Warlock, whose demon murders a half screen with one single wipe.

Both summoners (Druid and Nec) actually lack good summons!

But the Necro has Corpse Explosion, which is his strongest AoE skill by far, and Amplify Damage, which is the strongest debuff in the game.

The Druid has NO AoE at all and no curses or debuffs at hand, but he has Shockwave, which is the best crowd control spell in the game, rendering 99% of monsters helpless.

I once tested a pure Necro summoner build with Faith, Bramble, Cure Rogue Scout, Pride Iron Golem, self-wield Last Wish and potent casting gear giving level 45/48 skeletons. No points into CE. It was quite fun, albeit still too slow, until my golem died to a T5 herald and I said f… it for good.

Then I have a fire summoner build (maxed Fire Golem, Act 3 Ironwolf, maxed Skeletons, maxed CE, self-wield Infinity, Lower Resist), but even with such support the Fire Golem is crap.

In the end, I prefer the Druid and I skilled him that way that I can swap Beast+Spirit against Dreadfang or Reapers anytime if I want to engage combat. Shockwave and curses can be used simultaneously. :wink:

3 Likes

What I like about Warlock is the customization.
At least, druid has hybrid builds, but for the necro, the choices are too obvious. Customize your skeleton mage army is almost like buying a skin, it is basically a cosmetic change. They should introduce hard point bonuses on necro. If you invest 20 points on one golem, it should have a decent DPS.
Skeleton mage should have synergies (and I want less synergy overall (specially the 80 points one), but this synergy is needed!)

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Blame Amp damage for that. If there is an option that just increases damage, most of the time it turns out to be the best one.

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true at some point, but low resist could be decent if necro had more (powerful) elemental spells !

Also, weaken is not even bad, it is useless. It is the base damage, without any modifiers.

Iron maiden doesn’t stop hp reg, which make the curse beyond useless.

Attract is ultra niche. Dim vision too.

Life tap is great (not really for the necro thought).

If you play HC, damage is important, but survivability too. Except decripify and life tap, the others don’t give a huge service (Dim against archer)

if they’d buff his set bonus he could have fire spells

Yeah, it is already better, but I feel boosting specific items are sometimes just patch.
For example, we need a new version of mosaic back, but honestly, MA tree need a revamp. Mosaic was just a patch for the MA sin.
Fire golem, skeleton mage, poison explosion, poison dagger are unique skills, but so meh rn. Just to be decent at P1/P3 hell will be already better.
So, I’m not against buffing set bonuses, but it needs more than that. Builds should not only lock on 1 or 2 items.

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Ughhh sounds like user error sorry…

Of course a merc with fort and infinity is powerful and is relied on by any class since infinity means no AR or ITD needed . And more CE dmg . Mercs just are that powerful and are a cornerstone for most any build.

But there is some immune to physical i will use lower resistance and sometimes go pick up elemental minions , with a few skele pages, works great.

I dont know why you think holding beast is BiS , I’d rather go 125 fcr with hoto. Your skeleton dmg only matters on higher level mobs and wont compare to CB and a merc with infinity ( which does allow all skeletons to hit consistently). 5% dmg is alot more dmg than skeletons will do with 10k raw dmg. Thats more dmg than most classes will put out per hit.

Summoner is just fine and with a bit of savvyness can easily clear all content . If anything skele mages may need some love. But I also dont max them. Any golem but iron golem is worthless.

Really its the runewords that mess up using any variation of other builds .

Changes to curses may be alright, but really there is enough talents to sink points into , again mages can be useful , bone Armour is 60 points to max , ce 20. Thats 80/110 points , then skele mastery is 20, skele warrior is 20 thats 120/110 . 140/110 if you do mages , thats not including points to get to skills, or a few into lower resist if you want, or summon resist or into blood golem to boost IG health. But the less in bone Armour the less physical survivability you have.

Edit: skeletons are powerful with might/amp and infinity so enemies have -95% target defense and they basically always hit. Their base AR is poop.

Add a Iron Golem with Pride (Concentration) and a Bramble on your Merc (Thorns for everyone)… :).

Agree, Fanata on yourself gives 1/2 the bonus’s to the minions, so… possibly 18% more damage (not sure how that calc works, 1/2 of 9 is 4.5, so does Fanata apply at 4, 4.5 or 5?, so Beast gives either somewhere between 1% and 18% damage to minions)… sure they hit faster I guess, but if doing little damage… faster is better, but they hit so slow anyways not sure it’s worth it but Hoto also gives Oak Sage… 45% more life for everyone, including Merc and Iron Golem…
Trade-offs.

Character builds are about choices, not about maxing anything remotely usable. So you need to choose what skills to max and what to abandon, for example:

  • Offensive physical build: Raise Skeleton + Skeleton Mastery + Amplify Damage (assuming it’s no longer a one-point wonder) + Corpse Explosion
  • Offensive elemental build: Raise Skeletal Mage + Skeleton Mastery + Lower Resist (as above) + Fire Golem
  • HC (defensive) build: Raise Skeleton + Skeleton Mastery + Bone Armor (+ maybe one synergy) + Decrepify (as above)

By getting rid of one-point wonders, you make the skill choices meaningful. Also note that only one curse can be applied to the enemy, so even if you wanted to use both physical and elemental summons, you’d need to choose which curse to apply. So it’s better to specialize instead.

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