Season 5 - Calling for Well Deserved Nerfs

[Zahramar-21937]

Yeah I agree, Cold Sorceress is in a sweet spot right now and is definitely not OP at all.

[Regonox-2539]

I think even more nerf’s are needed, but I agree on all these.

@excala1-1410

It was designed to be a great low level runeword and it is.

Problem is more it’s a great high level runeword aswell which shows it’s to strong at low level.
However maybe it could become a compromise, make it +1 to skills however remove the Amn as needed component (Amn is mostly useless as effect), not with the intend to save yourself an Amn rune, but this would make the runeword 3s instead of 4s, meaning it would be a lot easier to actually get into a weapon before running somewhere in Nightmare and everyone (not only Paladin) could actually use it in a shield before running in Hell.
Would still easily be the best shield before endgame for most builds and weapon would be good for a pretty long part of the game aswell (the rest of the stats on Spirit are also pretty good).

[CharlesJT-1538]

@DizzyDwarf-1229224

I support increasing the base weapon damage of exceptional and elite weapons, which would assist melee characters all the way through, while also increasing diversity at the top end.

Agree 100%. Hope the developers implement this change. This would be the single best move, along with revamping uniques.

@Zahramar-21937

Cold Sorceress is in a sweet spot right now and is definitely not OP at all.

I still think Cold Mastery should follow the same formula as any other skill that adds a penalty vs. Sundered Monsters for consistent game mechanics. Cold Mastery gives too much bang for the buck with no additional gear requirements.

However, I agree the Cold Sorceress is in a good spot and shouldn’t change. I wonder if there is a good compromise that would be acceptable. For instance, nerfing CM to add 1/5 penalty, but then add a Flickering Flame-equivalent RW that offers -% to Enemy Cold Resist to make up the difference. Lastly, this gives cold facets a bit of their power back.

[Slomo4shO-1943]

@CharlesJT-1538

Spirit - reduce to +1 To All Skills

It’s cute that you think this is what makes spirit the powerhouse it is…

@CharlesJT-1538

Enigma - remove +0-74 To Strength (Based On Character Level)

Yes, because there is such a delta between the strength requirements of a Sacred Targe/Gilded Shield and a Dusk Shroud/Mage Plate

[Celestialray-2190]

I don’t agree with everything, OP. Blessed hammers could be tuned down, but if you remove the entire bonus from concentration, it will simply fall bellow all elemental builds because you can’t scale it in any way meaningfully (no magic resistance reduction, no magic % damage). Maybe add more magic immune monsters? Or reduce the scaling slightly.

If cold mastery was nerfed to 1/5 penalty, it would effectively give you much much less power than what any other mastery grants if you were to compare them on an endgame basis. For example, with tal rasha, 3 facets and infinity, you can have -47% resistance to an element. That’s more than what cold mastery would provide. You’d get something like double damage from it at best, while other two elements would still get their mastery bonus which scales to 300%+.

If you nerf grief, you throw physical melee characters in the stone age. They simply don’t have other options. My suggestion is to nerf grief (I don’t care how you do it), but at the same time base damage of ALL melee weapons should be increased by something like 50% or more.

Spirit is fine. We just need more options.

[insidious-1502]

@CharlesJT-1538

The best approach to fix melee is to nerf Grief, and then follow up with implementing a massive patch to improve itemization, with special focus on buffing old school uniques. See thread below.

Just make sure the “follow up” is in the same patch so we don’t have an entire season of melee even worse (nerfed Grief) but none of the compensatory buffs.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@insidious-1502

Just make sure the “follow up” is in the same patch so we don’t have an entire season of melee even worse (nerfed Grief) but none of the compensatory buffs.

Agreed. The correct order should be to buff itemization first, and then follow-up with nerfing Grief.

@Slomo4shO-1943

It’s cute that you think this is what makes spirit the powerhouse it is…

If you have a better way to nerf Spirit, I’m all ears. I didn’t want to impact the flavor of Spirit, just bring it down a notch.

@Celestialray-2190

My suggestion is to nerf grief (I don’t care how you do it), but at the same time base damage of ALL melee weapons should be increased by something like 50% or more.

That’s exactly what I’m proposing…

Itemization Improvements

[MicroRNA-1507]

@CharlesJT-1538

Keeping Grief in the broken state to keep melee semi-viable is a bandaid solution. The best approach to fix melee is to nerf Grief, and then follow up with implementing a massive patch to improve itemization,

Do you really think Blizzard is goimg to do a massive patch to fix melee?

I would suggest thinking of simpler solutions. A bandaid fix is better than nerf to melee that is underperforming relative to casters.

[Slomo4shO-1943]

@CharlesJT-1538

If you have a better way to nerf Spirit, I’m all ears. I didn’t want to impact the flavor of Spirit, just bring it down a notch.

Dual spirit =

• 4 all skills
• 50-70 FCR
• 110 FHR
• 44 Vita
• 178-225 Mana
• 6-16 magic absorb
• 35 resist to lightning/cold/poison

Energy provides 1 to 2 mana per point based on class. Pallies sit in the middle at 1.5. A low end 180 mana is equivalent to 120 Stat points into energy!

You are talking about anywhere from 150 raw stats points to well over 200 (for barb) with enough FHR to get at least 7 frames on all classes. The 70 FCR gets most classes (except zon) to 11 frames or better.

The most amazing thing is that pallies get to access this at level 25 in addition to being able to stack an additional 45 resistance with their shield bases…

[CharlesJT-1538]

Slomo4shO, great analysis.

If Spirit was nerfed, how about completely removing +55% FHR? This would keep +skills, FCR, and mana untouched and keeping the flavor of the runeword intact. The large bonus to FHR seems like gravy to me.

[Slomo4shO-1943]

How exactly does removing FHR affect ranged casters who don’t get hit to begin with? It does affect hammers but that’s about it.

[CharlesJT-1538]

@Slomo4shO-1943

How exactly does removing FHR affect ranged casters who don’t get hit to begin with? It does affect hammers but that’s about it.

I was trying to keep the flavor of Spirit intact. What do you think would be appropiate?

@MicroRNA-1507

Do you really think Blizzard is goimg to do a massive patch to fix melee?

Patch 2.4 was a massive patch for class changes among other things. So Blizzard has the potential, just need the will to fix melee.

[Darklite-2197]

No nerfs

20 characters

[holofonoro-1434]

No nerfs.

Not up for discussion.

[Hanz-1979]

@Celestialray-2190

no magic resistance reduction

magic res is already the lowest in the game

@Celestialray-2190

Maybe add more magic immune monsters?

this would hurt non pally magic specs more than pally
just like the nerf to LR/convic against sundered monsters

@Celestialray-2190

If you nerf grief, you throw physical melee characters in the stone age. They simply don’t have other options. My suggestion is to nerf grief (I don’t care how you do it), but at the same time base damage of ALL melee weapons should be increased by something like 50% or more.

there is no need to nerf grief imo
we just have to add +dmg to more expensive RWs like LW and beast
melee needs help, not a requiem

[Fredi-11624]

Nerfs are ofc required. Otherwise the power creep will kill D2R.

[Pugulus-1102]

I think the real solution is to buff hammerdins.

[Celestialray-2190]

@Hanz-1979

there is no need to nerf grief imo
we just have to add +dmg to more expensive RWs like LW and beast
melee needs help, not a requiem

I mean, melee could use more damage than any build since their aoe is so garbage. I would like to see ww barb actually killing monsters on p8 at a reasonable pace. It will still be significantly slower than most sorc builds, but at least he has item find to make up for that. Right now, barb is a travincal/pit bot and nothing more.

@Hanz-1979

magic res is already the lowest in the game

That doesn’t matter because you can get an infinity and put monsters below 0% ele res easily. You don’t have that luxury with paladin. I feel like people misguidedly ask for blessed hammer nerfs when in fact sorceress is the most op class in the game, maybe second to javazon.

[Hanz-1979]

@Celestialray-2190

That doesn’t matter because you can get an infinity and put monsters below 0% ele res easily.

the game has changed
thats not the reality in TZs anymore,

@Celestialray-2190

You don’t have that luxury with paladin.

you got it wrong

pally has the luxury of not caring to have to drop enemy(most) res to 0
not to mention the bonus dmg hammers have against demons

others(except cold sorce) have the trouble of lowering enemy res and are much more expensive to do so

[Gedmonas-2510]

Keep changing game few more bombs and i will fly qway from this