If they can stop duping and maybe even Botting, these high end rune word would just be like headhunters in POE, super OP but very rare and most people just have to learn to play more with easier to get items at the beginning.
Rune drops are fine. You no longer have to worry about getting them in time before ladder ends. With shorter ladders, people shouldnât be running these en mass anyways. Itâll be a traders game combined with the farm
^
The rarer something is, the more it is worth. The better it feels when you find it. Iâll never understand why people WANT the game to end early? Like⌠am i the only grown man who wishes he could just play video games all day everyday like in HS? I want it to last as long as possible.
Nope. I can share some numbers for you if youâd like.
As one example, letâs look at a top end unique, such as Deathâs Fathom. Much, much more rare than HRs, and if you want a well rolled one? hah! good luck finding a 28-30% Deathâs Fathom before finding 10 HRsâŚ
Thatâs wrong. The odds of a Deathâs Fathom dropping from baal in that same 200% MF P8P8 are 1:26336, much more common than a Ber rune. If the expected value for 10 Bers is 494650 baal kills, then the expected value for a 28-30% fathom (3 out of every 16 fathoms) is 140587 baal kills. And there are a large number of valueable elite uniques and sets that can drop from baal on any kill, while there is only a single progression of runes which becomes uneconomical below sur/jah/ber.
These numbers seem like theyâre chosen with a purpose. It is common knowledge running bosses for HRs is suboptimal, and that you should be speedfarming trash white mobs if you want the most HR/hour. HRs are way easier to farm than Windforce, certainly.
This shows you donât really have a good grasp on the game. Chaos sanctuary is a far better place to farm HRs than cows, and it isnât even close.
Its amazing how you contradicted yourself in consecutive quotes. Chaos sanctuary is not the best place to farm high runes, it is far worse than cows. Chaos is better for farming experience and elite uniques and set items that canât even drop in cows, but cows are vastly better at dropping runes. This is because the mob density is more than 3x higher in cows than chaos
To be specific, chaos sanctuary has a smaller map area largely obstructed by unpathable terrain. It has group spawn density set to 800 and 6-7 upgraded packs, but doom knights, venom lords and storm casters all spawn in groups of 2-3 monsters while oblivion knights spawn in groups of 1-2 with parties of 2-4 doom knights. The cow level by contrast has a very wide open 80x80 map size, a group spawn density set to 800 and 6-8 upgraded packs, but hell bovine spawn in groups of 5-10. Meaning there are 3x as many cows per spawn as chaos monsters. Meanwhile, the Ber rate for doom knights / oblivion knights / venom lords in P1P1 is 1:1095823 and for storm casters is 1:356143. But for hell bovine, its 1:730549. Meaning that each cow killed has a higher chance to drop a high rune than each monster in chaos on average (since its far more knights/lords than casters), but there are 3x more cows per group and more groups since the map is bigger.
There lies the issue, if runes are so rare that people would spend hundreds for them it gives A LOT of incentive to botters. Itâs like the ransomware issue, because people keep paying the ransoms it gives the ransomware firms a lot of cash to hire the best hackers. Likewise if thereâs a huge amount of money in selling high runes, youâll get top tier talent cranking out bots for this game. And with current droprates I do see actual legit high runes going for hundreds a piece early on.
I think Iâd rather play with bots in the game + ladder resets than watch the disaster D3 was with orange items dropping every 5 seconds.
Youâre only looking at the one Boss drop. You have to look at it on a per minute basis. Go run the numbers for the 5 waves at Baal and average them out RE: Fathom vs Ber.
Youâre incorrect.
This is incorrect. Please google â8p sealpop glitch runefinding guideâ you will quickly find out just how wrong you are.
All of your last paragraph assumes you are killing the enemies in chaos very slowly, when in actuality CS runs take under a minute. Finding Wirtâs leg, etc. It quickly becomes far, far less efficient than sealglitch runs. You can do multiple CS Gruns in the time it takes to do just 1 8p cow run.
And its not so much an issue that there exist endgame items that are so rare. The economy will always have top end extremely valuable items of some kind, and they exist in Diablo II without runes- rare weapons and circlets and javelins for example, or perfect crafted items or very high rolls on various items.
The issue where is that the more core items that enable lots of builds- everything from enigma to cta to infinity to beast to faith- require multiple high runes. And yet the set/unique items that enable builds in a similar function and are often closely matched alternatives can be 10-100x more common, but runes are 10-100x more in demand because all the runes dropped are a common resource for these builds who all need them while only a few builds need any given unique.
This means that runes have such a lopsided supply/demand issue compared to every other item in the game and prohibitively gate character builds behind them in a way other items donât. If no runes/runewords existed in the game at all, all the various sets and uniques and crafted items and good rares would be reasonably attainable for characters, with similar droprates and supplies. It would be a pretty healthy economy. Its only runes that completely break the mold and have astronomical droprates compared to their demand.
Please go be a bump in the road somewhere else.
Runes used to be what I would consider too rare. Some would even argue they were fine back when they were ultra rare.
Example: Zod runes are now 20 times more common than they were prior to the 1.13B patch.
The rune drop rates are fine IMO.
Thatâs the best you could come up with to refute him?
When I see something about the game that is factually inaccurate, Iâll correct the info. Get over it.
This is better solved by improvement in the balance of the skills, which will take some of the weight off of runes being highest in demand. The op rune words should be rare, an incentive for hard work or honest trade.
Oh and why are we discussing cows in P1?
You had better be killing them in P8 baal games, as thatâs where CS glitch shines.
Yup, certain items like 6/40 javs, JMODS, rare sin claws, etc could be ridiculously valuable, but none of them were required for common builds. You want to make a Necro, Hdin or Ele druid and not have a miserable experience? You need enigma. You want to make any kind of lightning character and actually be able to kill things in hell? You need infinity. You want to make a good melee character or WW barb and not be utterly gimply? You need Grief/Death/EBOTD. Bowazon? Better get that faith.
Youâll never find agreement on this topic since some players believe you should have to devote your life to a game to enjoy it and some do not.
All of your last paragraph assumes you are killing the enemies in chaos very slowly, when in actuality CS runs take under a minute. Finding Wirtâs leg, etc. It quickly becomes far, far less efficient than sealglitch runs. You can do multiple CS Gruns in the time it takes to do just 1 8p cow run.
Its faster to find wirtâs leg and clear cow level with any good javazon than it is to clear the multiple* chaos runs in a row youâd need for the same drops, using seal popping or not. Using seal popping still requires you to clear each seal and teleport around to proc monsters, then teleport around again to see if they dropped runes, which requires as much time as killing the monsters by clicking 1-2 times and throwing a fury and carrying on. Meanwhile each cow run you do has something like 3-5x as many monsters total and each one has maybe 25% higher chance to drop a high rune on average, if you looked at total number of storm casters vs knights/lords compared to hell bovine with their 50% higher droprate than knights/lords. On top of this, if youâre seal popping, youâre probably missing a significant chunk of white monster packs that donât get aggroed long enough to pop. It might be 6x the rune drops per cow run.
All seal popping does is slightly speed up the clear speed for slow PvM chars who can only kill seal bosses and not wipe mobs efficiently.
Iâm sorry, but if someone only has for example two hours to play this game per week, they are not entitled to have access to the powerful high end rune words.
Lets not make this game accelerate at light speed like Diablo 3.
I literally donât care at all about your foolish notion of keeping things locked behind ludicrously low drop rates because, âWaaah, stuff will be too common and the economy will be ruined and nobody should have anything good, waaah.â
Stop pretending for a single second that any of this matters. Itâs a video game. Thereâs no reason a single rune (or item) should have a drop rate that low. All you guys do is come around here and literally smash every idea any person has apart because you donât like it. Thereâs no reason beyond that. You donât want anything changed at all because, apparently, youâre a masochist. Well, good for you but the rest of the civilized world would like to enjoy everything the game has to offer in less than 20 years.
The Reddit D2:R forum is the other way.
Way faster than cows. People have run tens of thousands of bot runs to test it, maybe hundreds of thousands. Cows donât even compete.