Play with the big boys! 3 lite orb 3 nova 20fcr 2os and a jmod. Your infinity is running for the hill.
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First off just want to say, we generally came to the same conclusion (Andys + CoH is best for survivability as I said in my write-up as well). But, there is some misleading information here.
Sorry, it doesnât really work like this. â% damage goes to manaâ does NOT reduce how much damage is taken to your (or, the mercâs) life pool. It simply calculates the damage taken * the % value, and adds that to the targetâs mana pool. You still take the same damage to life as you would if you didnât have this on your gear.
Almost, but this is not accurate. Youâre forgetting, that the Prayer aura gets doubled when the Merc uses Insight. The Mercâs Prayer level is counted as âhard pointsâ to the skill, and has a synergy with the Meditation in that Meditation will also provide healing equal to your Prayer level. So, the Insight Merc provides his Prayer healing twice to the player. This makes +skills items such as CoH twice as valuable as youâre showing it.
Also lvl22 Prayer doesnât heal for 35 life/sec, it heals for 29 life/sec. Considering the OP is offering a Ber for a write-up I would fathom they have a CTA, so the actual Prayer level with Andyâs + CoH + BC would be 23, which is 31/sec (62/sec with Insight. Try it! itâs pretty darn good when itâs doubled.)
Fort provides higher Defense value, and higher life, than CoH. This is definitely true. But, it does not provide better survivability.
CoH has two advantages: lifesteal, and % damage reduction.
Lifesteal breakdown (using Avg dmg not max dmg, OPâs Eth CA Insight +perfect Andyâs. This would also apply equally in ratio to any other base weapon used, and attack speed is irrelevant as it would just change the numbers equally):
Fortitude:
Normal Attack: 3505, *0.5 (hell mode monster natural DR) = 1752.
Lifesteal 10% = 175/hit stolen
Jab: 3854, *0.5 = 1927
193/hit stolen
CoH:
Normal Attack: 1954, *0.5 = 977.
Lifesteal 18% = 175/hit stolen
Jab: 2336, *0.5 = 1168
210/hit stolen
So, CoH matches Fortâs life stolen per hit for Normal attacks, and edges out Fort on Jab attacks.
And, this is before accounting for CoHâs Demon/Undead bonus damage, which puts CoH WAY ahead for life per hit against those prevalent types of enemies.
I donât even think I need to explain how 8% damage reduction is far more EHP than ~100 more life or more defense rating. Without even getting into the way % damage reduction improves EHP logarithmically as you increase life regen (such as, from Prayer and CoH!) while flat life and defense bonuses affords almost nothing beyond their face values (relying on Chilling armor to save your Merc isnât much different than relying on Fade from Treachery), considering that the 120hp from a perfect Fort is less than a 7% bonus to total Merc life at just level 80 (this % decreases at higher levels) and Fort defense only reduces chance to be hit over CoH defense from 57% to 52%, itâs clear to see that 8% DR and 8% lifesteal is definitively better for survivability than what Fort offers.
Again - we agreed on what the best setup was! This is not to take away from the points made, only to clarify some of the numbers, and to promote the OPâs choice of Prayer a little stronger. I donât think many players get that the healing is doubled with Insight. Add a Hoto and you get over 80hp/sec regen - its phenomenal on a Sorc with their low HP pools!
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Hey buddy thanks for clarification. But I tested on this. Lets say now my merc prayer is 25/sec. removing insight its still the same. Placing insight is still the same. I dont see the prayer aura increase my healing. its still 25. Not sure if the synergy thing working?
Lightning Dmg with Sunder and -% damage reduction:
Conviction + Sunder is 78% (Sunder sets resistance to 95%, Conviction provides -17% dropping resistance to 78%)
I just want to clarify here - this only adds up to -7% enemy lightning resistance if the Sorceress herself is wielding the Infinity weapon. The -55% Lightning resistances proc from Infinity does NOT apply to Nova (or any other Sorc-casted spell) when her Merc is wielding the Infinity.
Your table could use another line and some better damage numbers based on the setup, to compare when the same-equipped Sorc is wielding the Infinity herself as opposed to when the merc has it.
Without infinity:
Nove damage avg: 5000
Enemy resist = 95 - 17 (conviction) - 25 (5/5 griffons) = 53%
Enemy takes 2350 dmg/Nova
With infinity:
Nova dmg avg: 3800 (it went down because you arenât wielding Hoto+Spirit anymore)
Enemy resist = 95 - 17 (conviction) - 25 (5/5 griffons) - 55 (Infinity ltng reduction) = -2%
Enemy takes 3876 dmg/Nova
So as you can see wielding the Infinity is still better, but not as big of a difference as you might think (about ~65% increased damage, whereas your current table suggests the Infinity would cause you to deal >400% increased damage).
For cold, your conclusions are correct about sunder > infinity. But I would argue that investing in Cold Mastery is still worth the points.
Not many people have 3x 5/5 cold facets to use let alone a perfect Deathâs Fathom or Nightwing, and points into cold mastery is more effective damage than points into Blizzardâs synergies anyways. Plenty of mobs in Hell have resistances to Cold damage (most common value of 50%) so stopping at -100% is not ideal; better to stop at -150% after all bonuses.
Even if one were to have all the gear you state (which, puts Blizzard at ~3200 dmg against an enemy with 5% res, not 20k dmg? I guess youâre expecting blizzard to hit multiple times and adding the damage up in your calculation?) more Cold Mastery will get you more damage over Blizzardâs other synergies when going against the enemies that you need it for the most: cold immunes and cold resisters.
Hey buddy. I am stating in the state of self held infinity weapon. I would not let a merc hold an infinity scythe. the damage is too little.
For this I still think have to careful with the points. Blizzard needs alot synergy. by maxing those synergy I prefer to spread my points for more energy shield. If not I would be quite squishy.
This I understand. my table states where enemy resistance is 130% and base on that calculation. That is why with conviction and no sunder unable to break immunity. I am not calculating on base that enemy is 95% resist. if enemy is 95% resist then it is not immune. I am just stating the fact of the useful of a sunder charm. And I dont see anywhere it shows that I state using infinity will have 400% increase damage. 
I just tested it again as I was writing my response. I think you may want to check again. It takes time to do it though, and itâs better to write it down and repeat 10x times, because D2R doesnât update your life total onscreen at the same intervals as Prayerâs healing hits.
Caveat - I FORGOT, but Prayer Life Restore (and ALL D2 âLife Replenishmentâ is [value] per 2 seconds, not per 1 second.
Hereâs some of my numbers:
Merc prayer: lvl 18, 21 life restored
Sorc life: 462, no natural/gear-provided Replenish Life
Scenario 1: No insight
- Sorc takes damage down to 150 life while merc is dead
- revive merc (no insight), get him in combat to proc prayer
- Start stopwatch, and end stopwatch when at full life
28.21 sec to full life
462-150 = 312 life to restore, /28.21 sec = 11.05 life/sec
Scenario 2: with insight, no prayer proc yet
4. Let merc die, get hit on sorc to low hp
5. res merc and equip insight
right here, check it out: you are already getting your life replenished, before the Prayer aura is triggered! You can just go to river of flame WP and watch your life replenish while obviously seeing the merc hasnât procâed Prayer aura yet.
Scenario 3: with insight and Prayer
6. unequip Insight, get sorc hp down again (got her to 19hp, mostly on accident, darn off-screen archers)
7. get merc to proc prayer, then quickly equip insight and start timer
(this is kinda rough and thereâs probably a better way but itâs late and i wasnât keen on the process because the results are telling)
Life when timer started: 60hp
time to full life: 19.1 sec
Life replenished: 462-60 = 402 /19.1sec = 21.04/sec
So, insight does double Prayer life/sec.
(Also, looks like your life is updated every 2sec onscreen, as I could see the total increase by ~20 life per change interval in scenario 1 and 2 and by 40 life be interval in scenario 3. Iâve read tha this is indeed the case and is related to why âreplenish lifeâ values on gear/spells show the value per 2sec instead of per 1sec; these values better match what you see onscreen.)
The enemy is 95%, because I am assuming the Sorc is using the Lightning Sunder charm. Your discussion was based on how the Sunder charms interact with/ compare in value too Infinty.
The charm sets the enemyâs resistance to 95%, regardless of what it was originally.
With sunder/conviction: 1200 damage,
with the rest of the gear: 5450 damage.
1200 * 4 (aka 400% damage) = 4800 damage. Your table claims you would be doing even more than this at 5450. Hence, your table is claiming the gear would increase your damage by more than 400% over using the [Sunder charm+Conviction] combo alone.
Yup buddy but I already state before the table and table also indicate if no sunder.
My suggestions were to be updates to the âWith Sunder and Convictionsâ and the âWith Sunder and Conviction and Items with - resâ lines in your table. Both of these lines state âWith Sunderâ, so you need to start the enemy resistance value at 95% in the calculations that are to show how these setups affect âlightning immune enemiesâ, not at 130% (or any other higher value).
(edit: I meant, lightning immune, not cold)
Not sure on this. But I have read on website quoting:
" Resistances are a displayed on the Character Screen. They are numerical values that can resist a percentage of damage from the four elemental attacks: Fire, Cold, Lightning, and Poison . For example, if a characterâs Fire resistance is 12, all incoming Fire damage the player receives is reduced by 12%"
Meaning with every negative resistance monster get they will received the damage of the player. So with gear that bring them to 0 resistance or below negative the monster actually received full damage from players. That is why after sunder monster resist become 95%. which you have also stated if conviction and Griffon enemy takes about 2350 damage. I am stating self held infinity which have additional -55 resistance and other gear like armor with a 5/5 facet so when total we can bring monster resist to zero they will received the full damage of nova which is what you have mentioned too the average is 5000 damage. So the gear that have - res do help and cause more damage to monster.
Resistances (your, and the monsterâs) can go to -100%, and -100% means you will effectively take twice as much damage than if you had 0% resistance.
Also as I showed in my suggestion (just a suggestion to bring the table into more realistic terms) you wouldnât be doing the same 5k damage with/without infinity. When youâre not using infinity, youâre using something else, usually something like Hoto+Spirit. This affects the damage comparison too.
Buddy.
With Sunder enemy resistance become 95%. after conviction -17% then selfheld infinity -55, Griffon -25, armor with 5/5 facet -5. 95- 55 -17 -25 -5 = -7
Now enemy have -7% resistance. meaning at 0 resist enemy will received 5000 nova damage. with -7% res meaning 5350 damage.
I have some mis calculation there because I calculated conviction as -19% instead of -17%.
But its still the number stated in my table not far off. 5350 nova damage to enemy.
You state with infinity and griffon enemy already received 2350 damage so I not sure where my table gone wrong.
I list it base on my build.
With self held infinity my nova damage is actually about 5000. not 3800. I have about 7 lightning skill charms in stash.
I suggested that if you were doing 5k damage before equipping infinity (as seen on the skill in your tree, before resistances are applied), then you would see a lesser value in the tree before resistances were applied when you equipped the Infinity. This is because, you would no longer be wielding something other than infinity.
The point of the suggestion was to compare the damage output when you wore the infinity yourself, or when you put one on your merc.
Letâs re-calculate with the new baseline of: 5k damage when infinity is equipped (again, before resistances).
with infinity equipped (7 GCs and a Sunder and otherwise ~max gear, incl. 5/5 griffons; I do these in maxroll/d2planner btw):
Nova = 3893-5083
Letâs use 5k which is close to max, but thatâs perfectly fine i dont need the whole setup and dont have to sue averages, it still works out using maxes.
Enemy resistance: 95 -17 (conviction) - 25 (5/5 griffons) -5 (5/5 socketed armor) - 55 (infinity) = -7
Nova damage = 5350/cast
without infinity equipped; only change is weapon/shield (just going to use hoto+spirit here, and the merc is using some eth CA infinity or [whatever base] infinity)
Nova = 4952-6393 (weâll use 6300)
Enemy resist = 95 - 17 (conviction) - 25 (5/5 griffons) - 5 (5/5 armor) = 48%
Nova damage = 3276/cast
Wielding the Infinity increases your damage by 61.2%, over not wielding the infinity.
So, itâs still the same damage gain when you equip the infinity yourself - about 60%.
How are you going to regen mana if you equip infinity on your merc?
I get what you want to compare here. Holding infinity ownself or let merc hold.
Be sure that Nova is mana consuming. Even with max ES or warmth or gear with mana regen, without meditation aura, A Nova sorc will face mana issue and keep on potting. So my table is actually comparing the useful of self held infinity after using sunder. trying to get this idea.
Your nova sorc with merc holding inifnity and no concentration aura does not seems a good choice.
The Idea of self held infinity Scythe sorc came about more than 10 months ago. This idea was generated as people want both conviction and meditation aura on a nova sorc. because conviction helps and nova sorc cannot live without meditation aura. Its just majority people play style. That is why they generate an idea of why not the sorc hold infinity and merc hold insight. you get best of both world. even better by self held infinity you get that -55 res bonus which use on merc you wont get.
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In a Nova build?
By having a heck of a lot of Energy and mana, to go with my Energy Shield investment.
% Mana regen is based on your total mana pool. When you have higher mana pool, the regen is more effective. I have a nova sorc with infinity on the merc and almost all stat points in energy and the 1-pt-wonder Warmth, I never run out of mana.
(Also silkweave is nice, I havent found War Travs or tri-res-MF boots yet.)
Buddy i have tested multiple times. A 200 FCR nova sorc or even sorc as what you mention on your build. nothing comes better and faster than an infinity self held nova sorc. I think you should try solo player 8 and you can see the difference.
With mana burn in baal area, insight is still better to replenish mana at a faster rate. which of coz combine with warm and lots of mana.
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