Pre-LoD mode and Sundered charms

First things first… let’s address the facts. Upon launch of original D2, the game was insanely popular and broke all sorts of sales records right out of the gate. A significant portion of players consider the 1.09 series of patches the “golden age” heyday of D2. Not everyone, of course, but a very significant portion. That was all prior to the 1.10 patch that came in 2003, which added monster immunities. I’m not saying that the introduction of immunities hurt or helped the game’s popularity, I’m merely stating, neutrally, the fact that the game was clearly fine prior to them being introduced.

A lot of players have considered the addition of immunities to be a pretty big misstep in the direction of the game. At that point Blizzard North was all but dead, and if I recall correctly, the 1.10 patch was implemented by the one sole remaining Blizzard north dev before North shut down forever and “South” took sole control of the game in maintenance mode.

Those are all facts, and if I’m off on the history of Blizzard and the 1.10 patch, it’s minor nuance of non-point detail. It might have been two devs instead of one, etc.

The addition of sundered charms is fine, I think. In current state, they’re optional. If you don’t like immunities and want to break them, fine, that’s your choice. If you prefer to play the game with that challenge intact, then you have that option as well. The dev team has decided to put that option in the individual player’s hands and give you a choice on how YOU want to play based on the play experience you want. Personally, I don’t see a problem with that and applaud them taking that approach. If you’re down with the terror zone mechanic and sundered charms, turn it on. If not, don’t. Simple.

However, this brings me to my personal bone to pick… again. I know it’s not a sizeable portion of the player base by any stretch, but there is a non-zero number of us who do prefer to play pre-LoD mode. I know, I know… most of you reading this don’t understand why anybody would choose to play that mode or our reasons why. And that’s okay. It’s not in the scope of this to try and explain it or justify it, just accept that we are out here, we have our individual reasons why we prefer it, and Blizzard left the mode in the game for us because they know we’re here.

The issue is that they keep “tuning” and “balancing” the game for LoD, taking charms, jewels, and runes/runewords into account, assuming players will have access to them and be using them. Those changes are then pushed down to all players, including pre-LoD mode players. That’s an issue. Imagine playing your expansion character, but never pick up a charm, never pick up a rune, and never put any gear on your merc (which you can’t even take with you outside the act it came from). Forget facets, and forget your shared stash tabs. Now keep every single other mechanic and all the numbers the same. That’s what the pre-LoD experience is currently.

TL;DR - Blizzard has decided to do a “soft undo” of a previous decision by allowing players to flat out break immunities easily if they want… but only LoD players get the option. Once again, another across-the-board global decision that affects all modes forgets to take into account how it will impact non-LoD players… or in this case, not impact. I’m not in any way saying that terror zones and sundered charms should or shouldn’t be implemented in LoD, so please don’t infer some commentary on that one way or the other. I’m just saying that if you’re going to do this under the guise and justification to “promote build diversity” then it should be remembered that, hey, non-LoD players would like the same build diversity options. And maybe, just maybe, start tuning non-LoD games independently of LoD games in general to reflect the substantial differences between the two modes. Stop treating us pre-expansion mode players like second-class players.

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You pick 1 of all the things that changed from 1.09 to 1.10 and compare it with a sloppy implementation of immunity breaking charms.
But you forget the items and runewords added with 1.10. You forget monster and synergy changes.

Therefore your whole post is biased and void. If you can’t see it then you are as blind as the blizzard devs

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Not using the most efficient options available is definitely a choice.

A stupid choice.

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So you agree, in the current state of the game, that we should all go lightning characters with an infinity merc or a hdin then right?

I have 8 characters 6 of which are not a Lite Sorc or a Hammerdin and they are incredibly efficient and tons of fun to play. My Bowazon is my current favorite

If you can’t build an efficient character that’s really a you problem

Lol a bowzon is not efficient for PvM. A light sorc would wipe the floor in a p8 game while the bowzon isn’t even halfway done with clearing the area.

I have found everything I have on P1. And my Bowazon is incredibly efficient.

Git gud

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The lack of synergies and immunities pretty much consecrate everything pre-1.10 as the best D2

Yeah P1. I’m glad you can clear okay on P1. Sounds very efficient.

It is. Why would I waste my time on P8??? Do you know how it works?

P2 = P1 drops

P3 = Most efficient for time to kill vs drop increase.

P4 is the same as P3

P5 and P7 are technically better drops but time to kill increase makes it not worth it.

P8 is the same drops as P7.

???

Noob.

didnt prevent anyone of playing necro, druid, amazon or assassin in the last two decades

people need to realize that the deciding factor is fun and fun is subjective

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Yeah, so you’re not playing very efficiently. The point was there is a huge power difference between a bowzon and a lightning sorc. A bowa is not efficient for farming PvM. Fun sure, but not efficient.

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Homie. This is not a competition between you and I for drops

I made my Bowazon as efficient as I can. She may not be as efficient as my Lite Sorc but I still made the most efficient choices.

I’m happy with it

And now I have a more efficient option. I need these Sunder charms lmao

I do not believe you have misunderstood the context and point of my post. The scope and intention was not to dissect and analyze the interconnected ramifications of every change the game has gone through, and how each affected every other change and mechanic in minute detail. It was not intended to be a comprehensive history of D2 patches, nor did I intend to compare X to Y. I was merely stating that there seems to be a large outcry about how these sundered charms are going to “break the game” and that I find that opinion to be unfounded because the thing these charms do is effectively return the game to a pre 1.10 state, and the historical record shows that the game was fine in that state and certainly not “broken.”

My overall intent was to point out, as I have done before, that the devs have a habit of implementing global changes that affect all players, but basing those changes solely upon LoD play, and not factoring in how those changes are going to affect non-LoD play mode where the play environment is vastly different and those changes have far different impact than they do in the LoD play environment. That’s all, nothing else. In this specific case, the point is that this proposed change and addition has been stated by devs to be in an effort to promote build diversity. My assertion and observation is that what the actual mission statement should be, realistically, is “we want to promote build diversity… but not for pre-LoD mode players” as it appears we are, once again, apparently forgotten about and/or outright ignored. I don’t believe there is any bias involved in that observation. It’s not like I’m demonstrating a propensity to see something that isn’t there or accurate just because I prefer to play pre-LoD mode.

It’s ladder only content. Ladder is about competition and ranking up. Obviously everyone who wants to compete will use the best strats that game offers so what kind of choice is that? Win or lose.

And this is just a wrong statement. The charms are not effectively returning the game to pre 1.10 state, not even in the sense of immunities. That’s why I mentioned other changes 1.10 brought into the game.
You never had the option to equip yourself or your merc with a -85res weapon, that works for all elements.

The game was not “broken” back in pre 1.10 because it was somehow balanced without the extensive immunities. But it was very easy and you didn’t have to think a lot about your skills. Also everybody just went to kill cows anyway. It was very different back then.

Yes they never cared about non expansion. They messed up non expansion since 1.07. D2R is even worse than the old version, as they implement changes that are a pain in classic, but leave out the QoL for classic. TZ and sundered charms are luckily not effecting classic. But if they nerf classes because of those 2 changes, it will mess up classic even more.

TLDR.: Your statement about charms = pre 1.10 state = not broken = false.

Just a quick correction; immunities were added before 1.10. I believe in 1.07 is when those were added. And yes, I mean to common monsters.

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Again with this. 1.10 added synergy, not immunity. Immunity already existed. It had precedence. Good lord. Synergy was the wrench that was randomly thrown into the machine, not immunity. >.>

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This person 100% gets it. Synergies were the worst idea.

I’m playing Diablo 09, and the lack of synergies is honestly beautiful.

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I stand corrected. When making my post I referenced online resources that gave the wrong information. That’s my mistake for taking the first answer I found and not delving more thoroughly. Thank you.

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