So after reading the new patch notes – I don’t see anything in there with fixes to poison damage being cancelled out by physical damage.
TF?
Hasn’t this bug been known about for months now?
If unaware, for context: D2R - Poison Damage Is Way More Broken Than You Ever Thought Possible - YouTube
may be in 2024 after jc
I hope not. Would be nice to get more build variety, and particularly in one of the underloved areas (barring Venom, which does its damage fast enough to likely not be effected as badly unless you’re 4 framing it already).
Don’t really do poison so hadn’t heard of this. It is a problem that has always been in D2 or newly introduced in D2R?
No you get a buff to the already high performing trapsin build that everyone’s played 1000 times and you better like it.
yeah it sucks. i want to play poisonnova necro viable vs bosses.
The problem isn’t that poison “doesn’t stack” with physical damage - it technically does. Nobody seems to be remembering that poison’s tick timer is reset on every physical attack done by you, and if you have a mercenary active, their attacks reset their poison tick timer but not yours.
This is something that the streamer didn’t know apparently. The reason the poison worked “somewhat” in his test was because Diablo was causing guided arrow to miss due to frequent dodging, which gave the poison time to tick at least a couple times in between shots. The game does not contain logic such that if a monster is poisoned by you, subsequent attacks by you should not reapply the poison and thus let the poison timer complete its course.
Basically, the TL;DR if all this is that because the game lacks a check for applied poison with the condition to not reapply until the monster is no longer poisoned by you, continual attacks minimize poison’s effectiveness.
This has all been known for …well, forever. It’s how poison works in Diablo 2. It’s one of the things that should really be fixed in D2R so that it is a more viable method of taking down monsters and bosses.
i was about to post this, but it seems i am not the only genious on these forums. I’m definitely the smartest genious by far, i mean im literally certified by MENSA, but i guess im not alone.
The problem is that “physical attacks done by you” seems to apply to your summons. So a poison Necro with some skeletons or a golem will be constantly undermining their poison damage.
No, the problem is that there is no logic coded into the poison mechanism whereby it can’t be reapplied until it’s either done ticking or on its final set of ticks (the latter is called Pandemic in World of Warcraft).
Source from IcyVeins:
i think OP is talking about this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnFj-xSsFys
supposedly
if poison dmg shares a frame with any other dmg source, the other dmg source will have the preference and poison dmg wont be aplied in that frame
he’s spam reapplying the poison nova. Notice the necro in the video that cast it every 2 seconds got full damage?
it’s just like the Poison Magi problem. Their damage is insanely bad because they constantly just reapply the poison bolt over and over… If it stacked for either Nova or Magi, then the damage would be pretty nice.
So stop being a bored summoner and cast it no more than once every 2 seconds.
Jeez i dont even get paid for this info, i share my wisdom with the community i should literally have Green MVP text.
just tested
pnova nec + clayG + 13 skellys + merc
gear was the same in all runs
didnt used LR
diablo @p3 2s cast with a macro with minions + merc = 28s
diablo @p3 constant spaming with minions + merc = 27s
diablo @p3 2s cast with a macro and no minions and no merc= 29s
diablo @p3 constant spaming and no minions and no merc = 27s
according to you the run time was supposedly to be significant lower if i casted every 2s, which was not the case
according to the vid i posted the run time was supposedly to be significant lower solo, which wasnt the case
by logic, run time was supposedly to be lower with pnova dps + minions dps, which wasnt the case
im not sure what to make of this
but something is definitely wrong
what is your merc wearing?
and the 2 seconds intervals is basically the minimum. ideally you dont want to overwrite pnova.
I also tested this with a ton of Different poison effects and the results were all the same.
Minions slowed down the application of the poison immensely often reducing the kill speed of a boss to slower than without them. It was so bad in the majority of cases that the army was adding a negligible amount of damage total, or removing damage entirely.
In the case of the Necro Poison Dagger The army actually slowed down the kill speed of the boss by 4 seconds, vs me alone. The full video and all the testing is available on my channel of course.
Necromancer Poison Dagger
1:27 Army only
23 Me + Army
19 Me Only
Necro Dagger (Non Poison Dagger)
Army + Regular Poison 19
By Myself 21
PDagger + Venom
Army + Me = 13.5
Me Only = 14
Venom Only
Army + Me 36
Me Only 39.5
Druid Rabies
Army Only 39
Army + Druid Rabies 38
Rabies Only 2:42
Poison Dagger + Open Wounds
Necro lvl 99 + Army 14
Just Necro 14
Amazon Guided Arrow + Poison Damage P8 Diablo 1:01
Amazon Guided Arrow No Poison Damage
P8 Diablo 1:24
Amazon Guided Arrow Tap Test Poison
P8 Diablo 2:21
Amazon Guided Arrow + Poison Damage + Merc and Valk
P8 Diablo 0:53
tried with insight, treachery and tal’s M…around 30s
removed merc’s gear right before diablo spawned…around 30s again
as i said, i used a macro
im still trying to figure out why my pnova tests had different results from the vid i posted early
not even really sure why it still needs to be tested it’s been confirmed by multiple people at this point.
It can be summed up as a simple math equation.
Poison Aplies it’s damage in 1 frame intervals. 1 second of poison is equal to 25 frames of poison damage, So.
If you have 14 Skeletons and they all attack once during a second and each consume a different frame than your poison damage has been reduced by 14-25=11
If you want to represent that as damage output we could.
If my poison nova Does 10,000 Damage over 2 seconds that is 50 Frames Of Damage.
10,000/50 = 200 Damage Per Frame.
So 14 Skeletons Consuming 14 Frames = a Reduction in damage of 14x200 = 2800 Damage Per Second or 5600 damage per 2 seconds. Effectively Reducing the 10,000 damage poison Nova to 4,400 damage per 2 second period.
Keep in mind this does not include Revives, Merc, Golem, or any other players which will reduce the damage even further by consuming more frames.
In the case of a Full Summon Necro, Telestomping onto a Boss it is entirely possible for all 25 frames per second to be consumed thereby completely negating all poison damage.
This also Effect’s the Summon Druid as well when using Rabies, as their army too cancels out most of the poison damage.
well im a literal genious so i felt responsible to test this problem out myself since it wasnt like this the last time i played a pnova necro, and here are the results and my hypothesis without opening up the code feed myself.
So whats happening is that there was a change added a while back to FHR and block/dodge in which rather than locking up a mobile would instead earn immunity frames to prevent overload. Sadly these immunity frames are effecting the bitrate in which calculates the next poison tick interval. Yes mobs dodge/block and bosses have very high dodge/block.
being this intelligent is a curse i tell ya, ignorance is bliss.
ty, i just realized my tests were right, it was my reading of them that was wrong
the nec i tested has about a 12.5k dps pnova
12k-3.6k(skiped frames with13 skellys + golem) = 8.4k nova dmg with minions
minions dmg is about 5k
8.4k+5k(minions dps) = total 13.4k dps
so the reason i was getting basically the same run time is bc the total dps was almost the same
i dont think thats the case
if im not mistaken, mobs that dont have shield but are capable of blocking dont have block frames
It shares a damage table with physical, and only so many phsical hits can be registered at a time. This is something that’s been known since like 2006 bro. They cannot fix it. It’s a game engine problem.
It’s the same reason bowzon strafe cannot actually hit a single target with all the arrows. They hit too consecutively within the same frames. Strafe shoots 10 arrows, and if it’s a boss fight, on average, 4 of them don’t even happen because of the frames, so it’s not just a poison thing. It’s a damage tick issue embedded in the engine and basically, unfixable. The only solution is to not go poison. It sucks. It is what it is. As a bowzon, I understand ur pain, but there’s not 1 thing they can do to fix it, or if they could, they’ve opted not to for some reason for roughly 18 years. My guess is the amount of coding it would take to separate the damage tables and embed all that info into the rest of the game code would be a metric F ton of a disaster.