It is backed with false assumptions and conclusions.
Disagreement and persistence is not disrespect. But then again, i do not disrespect people who repeatedly repeat their thought-free mantra.
I have discussed constructively with many anti-plooters before, as long as they brought arguments on the table. All you are bringing is your holy-book of bot-diablo. If you want to preach gospel, there are different places for that.
Min maxing would 100% lead to you playing solo MF runs as you are already doing now.
There is no math in the universe that would give you more loot when you reduce your loot to 1/8(!!!) of the total available items.
It is not an opinion. frankly it is the sheer lack of understanding basic math.
Do not call yourself a min-maxer when you cannot even see the difference between a run that is basically a casual match and a max-reward-zero-risk solo MF run.
If shared loot was already the maximum reward you could get. You know what would already be happening? People playing that very playstyle in private parties over public runs. And guess what! They are not!
You seem to have forgotten our discussion, where it was clearly pointed out why an FFA preferring griefer would intentionally join PLoot games: (in fact you even pointed out one such instance)
Seems to me that your current PLoot system provides incentives for people who prefer FFA to exploit the PLoot system. The griefer isnât griefing just because heâs a git, heâs also doing it because the system rewards him for doing it.
Here we are with ppl trying to make d2r poe 3 or d5. And look where PoE is now due to redditors and this forums shares so much of the reddit vibes âwe are all game devs listen to us or the game will be badâ Poe devs listen to redditors and game goes down the gutter, reddit comes up with new, just as ridiculous fixes. Do not let this game go through the same garbagestorm, to quote Lead Dev Chris Wilson âget rolled redditâ, it says much when devs are basically showing middle finger to a community at this point. Dont let same happen here.
I was specifically replying to your remark about David Brevik and instanced loot. PLoot is not instanced loot - Iâm perfectly clear on the difference. Go read some of my earlier posts if you doubt that.
I havent. But i do not give free hints to people who do not stress their own heads.
I enjoyed our discussion and you (and me) came up with 2 points against ploot. It was good. Devs should keep these points in mind in their discussion.
It would still be a good mode for smaller parties. Especially when playing story.
I still see many usecases for it. Even if that griefing factor is not addressed (i still believe there might be an elegant solution).
Worst case scenario is that there are no cows with ploot.
Everytime I join XP runs I would have to click your loot option or be at a disadvantage because you altered the game.
Disrespectful an toxic yet again, refusing to accept other people who had different opinions then yours. Youâre not here for a discussion youâre trying to force your opinion on others and argue. This is a prime example of how toxic you are.
Ask your fellow proponents of PLoot. Almost all of them have been advocating for what amounts to âtimedâ loot: that is, everyone can see all the items on the ground, but only the âwinnerâ can pick it up until the timer runs out. Then that loot becomes FFA.
Op, i totally agree with you for added personal loot, was the best feature in d3 period, having played too many games with shared loot it is simply not a good system, d3 had the best loot system i have seen, that was one of its only qualities but a good one nonetheless.
Shared loot forces people basically to lonewolf in pve (poe) poor example of a loot system but great example of how not to do it.
While looting in private groups in d2 was better than solo, there was a lot of solo players mainly because many played alone and pug loot is terrible, people use third party cheat programs like pickit and that takes all the fun away.
Timed loot is not personal/instanced loot. I would be okay with timed loot instead of personal loot but these are distinct. Again what do you think the difference is between instanced and personal loot? I know that some mistakenly think personal loot means account bound but that is false.
Quite the opposite.
But you are not exactly giving me a fight about it.
Unless these runs would be slower, because no âcarryâ player would let you steal their items âfor freeâ.
You seem to give these systems a one-step deep thought.
Try to think things through before you give feedback like that.
How would the other 7 players play that are in the game with you?
Take Fenix for example. He thought things through, gave credit where it was due and also came up with 1-2 new reasons against ploot, which are systemic issues. That is how you run an argument. Not with half-baked opinions.
Your opinion is fine. But it is not an argument. It is a small vote in a big pool of other votes. Not more or less than that. And certainly not something that can convince another person.
Says the one demanding to shut a suggestion down based on his opinion.
I am not thinking personal loot means account bound. However, there are disastrous efficiency problems with untimed personal loot - no one picks up every item on the floor. Sometimes what one person considers valuable, another person considers junk. Case in point: A 4 OS Eth Thresher. If the only person who can pick up a piece of loot is the âwinnerâ, many valuable items will sit on the ground and disappear when one of the other players in the game would have picked it up. The economic ramifications of this is huge - and the effect on the game would be disastrous.
Even if Diablo 3 hadnât made the mistake of making loot account bound, no one would want that economy for D2.
I also like to believe because of personal loot rather than making looting unfun and too competitive, people were encouraged to party and getting their own loot, i am sure that it contributed to the popularity of d3.
Correct. It will be harder to gear up with personal loot. I know this very well; however it would definitely not be disastrous. That is why when some falsely claim that personal loot is easy mode, I know that they do not understand the game or basic economics.
This is not completely accurate. At launch and its early days D3 loot was tradeable and there even was 2 auction houses. Later on, legendaries (and essentially only legebdaries) had restricted trade. Specifically, they could be traded to any party member for 2 hours when it dropped in game.
He reminds me of a bankrobber coming into my bank.
I have several packs of 500$ bills in my hand, because i am counting.
He comes at the desk and says âhands up, its a robbery.â.
I snicker, because he is wearing his ski-mask backwards.
I tell him, i am over here by the desk, but i am not gonna raise my hands up, also you are holding a banana.
He says âhands up! you are toxic! Give me all your money or i will shoot you!â.
I tell him, dude, you are wearing your mask the wrong way, try to turn it, so you can see. Also you are holding a banana.
âHands up! Toxic! Money! Shoot!â
Now you come in and tell me, i should give him the pack of dollar bills? I beg you, mate.
Some people are just unable to put up the least of efforts.
Thatâs not a âargumentâ as you would say thatâs just your opinion.
So since you failed to grasp the entire point due to lack of experience Iâll explain it again. If there is a ploot option you alter the core aspect of the game. So anytime I pug exp runs I would need to use the ploot option to min/max my runs because on FFA I may lose a drop an on ploot I wouldnât even though FFA is more fun an more competitive an a core part of the original game. On ploot I statistically cannot ever lose a drop, on FFA I can. So by default in order to min/max my exp runs I would have to use ploot on all pug games cause your options altered the game.
Tries to discredit someone elseâs opinion using his own opinion. Also you need a majority vote to win a vote not a minority vote. You cannot win a vote with a minority vote.
All of the above shows youâre not here for a discussion, you think your opinion is superior which proves youâre toxic.
Sure, if that is your mindset, then maybe you are a ploot-person and not a min-maxer afterall.
Sorry for suggesting a mode that suits your player-profile better than what exists already.
On FFA you statistically can gain more loot than your allies. In ploot you cannot.
But the truth is that the loot in FFA will asymptoically approach 1/8 in the long run. Jokes on you, you are chasing a ghost.
No, you would have to use ploot because of your mindset. That is a you problem, not a ploot problem.
I have friends who curse at me when i leave town and kill monsters while they take hours for shopping. Their argument is that they âlose lootâ because i am killing stuff they would have been able to loot if they had been there.
This is the level of argument you are currently on.
I have no problem with a vote amongst the entire playerbase on the subject. I am sure you know the outcome of it.
Also my opinion is backed with 18 arguments. Your opinion is backed with a mindset that you do not want to âlose lootâ. Which ironically is exactly what your side of the argument is accusing us of.
My arguments are superior indeed. My opinion would welcome being tested, see Fenix, who did it right. En Taro Adun, Praetor!
I was there at launch. I know full well there used to be trading. Thatâs why I specifically said they made a mistake by making everything account bound.
Your version of PLoot is not easy mode, itâs economy destroying mode. Trade is the lifeblood of D2âŚpeople are constantly trading runes for items and vice versa. It would absolutely be disastrous for the game and would negatively impact many individuals.
Yes, other PLoot opponents may not understand this, but I certainly do.
