Then I disagree with Mr Llama. Heck, I even started listening to him, and half the runewords he couldn’t remember what they were, so I don’t think he put much thought into his ranking beyond his personal experience with them. Look, Myth isn’t the greatest runeword that’s for sure, but it does have +2 Barbarian Skills at level 25. I used it for my Leap Attack barbarian while waiting to be able to use something like a Duress or a Treachery.
It’s certainly not the worst rune word in the game. That’s probably Venom, Zephyr, or Nadir. Nadir and Zephyr are both cheap, but Nadir is only used for the Cloak of Shadow charges, and then thrown away. It just doesn’t operate properly as a runeword. Zephyr is designed poorly for a bow, Twister when struck? Edge or Insight are better at roughly the same level.
More importantly I feel like your suggested changes are poorly thought out, and don’t give much thought to what the runewords are about or how to buff the existing elements to usefulness. Since I doubt Blizzard is going to keep wanting to come back and fiddle with the same rune word over and over it’s important to get the buff right the first time. And if multiple balance efforts are spent, it will be much better to have multiple buffs than to over buff and then have to nerf it. Blizzard does not like nerfing things after it gets out of PTR. Since this PTR is focused around Terror zones I think we need to be much more cautious about proposed buffs because there is not enough PTR bandwidth to test things a lot.
Venom can’t really be properly balanced until Poison Dagger is balanced properly. I think that fixing Poison Dagger skill comes first, which probably also involves fixing how poison damage works, and then we can look at Venom to figure out the right way to balance it. Considering that and the limited PTR for balance testing I think this runeword needs to be put on the backburner.
Myth, is less worrisome as long as the buffs are more defensive and flavor in nature. Adding crushing blow has more repercussions than can be tested in a PTR not focused on balance. Sure, the current Taunt and Howl Chance to Cast are horrible, but so are almost all the other Chance to Cast on other items. Taunt would actually be useful at a higher level. Howl doesn’t work well with Taunt, but Shout is a defensive warcry that would. Then add an O-skill for people who want to play around with Barbarian skills. Perhaps Grim Ward would make sense, as something less common for both the Barbarian and the non-Barb to play around with. O-skill seems the way to go for the class body armor runewords, as that seems to be part of the flavor, for example, the Warmth on Enlightenment is an O-skill.
I’d probably make it more something like this:
- Myth
Hel - Amn - Nef
10% Chance to Cast Level 11 Shout When Struck
25% Chance to Cast Level 18 Taunt on Striking
+2 To Barbarian Skill Levels
+30 Defense Vs. Missile
Replenish Life +10
Attacker Takes Damage of 14
Requirements -15%
+1 to Grim Ward
Level 18 Taunt reduces enemy damage and attack rating by 39%, while 11 Shout increases defense by 200%. Together that makes for a decent defensive combo. At level 25, most of your points are probably in combat skills or masteries, so it probably better than going with your own native shouts. Grim Ward gives access to Monster Flee but in a more controllable way than Chance to Cast Howl. If you want to push for something more offensive or aggressive like Crushing Blow then I think you need to wait until a PTR with greater focus on item balance.
Enlightenment is better handled, I agree that Faster Cast is needed on it, but rather than adding Energy Shield, I’d suggest Faster Hit Recovery. Not to mention you haven’t addressed the problem of the Chance to Cast not being high enough. If we are going to put this runeword forward to be buffed then we ought to address that as well, because they are not likely to come back later to fix it. My suggestion:
- Enlightenment
Pul - Ral - Sol
25% To Cast Level 15 Blaze When Struck
25% To Cast level 15 Fire Ball on Striking
+2 To Sorceress Skill Levels
+1 To Warmth
+30% Enhanced Defense
Fire Resist +30%
Damage Reduced By 7
+20% Faster Cast
+30% Faster Hit Recovery
That would make this slightly better than Stealth for a Sorceress. It has 5% less Faster Cast, but it has +2 skill points, and 5% more Hit Recovery. Blaze grants 5% Faster Run/Walk than stealth and at 25% chance to cast is likely to be active (5% is far too little since you should not be hit that much).
Gloom has decent resistances, though it does need some boosting. For one thing the Level 3 Dim Vision lasts less than 2 seconds in Hell difficulty. I don’t understand why you want Weaken or Prevent Monster Heal, how do those fit the Gloom theme? I guess maybe I could understand Weaken if I squint, but then you have two defensive Curses that conflict with each other. The level 15 Weaken will always override the level 3 Dim Vision. Additionally, Weaken works better on When Struck because it’s a defensive curse that can affect ranged attackers that way. If you want a gloomy weakening effect on striking, Decrepify would be much better suited because it’s radius is fixed. Then increasing the level of Dim Vision you’d have the Dim Vision radius always bigger than Decrepify so they could work well together. Something like this:
- Gloom
Fal - Um - Pul
25% Chance to Cast Level 15 Dim Vision When Struck
15% Chance to Cast Level 1 Decrepify on Striking
+10% Faster Hit Recovery
+200-260% Enhanced Defense
+10 To Strength
All Resistances +45
Half Freeze Duration
5% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
-3 To Light Radius
That way Dim Vision lasts over 4 seconds (in Hell) and has a large enough radius that it’d actually be rather effective at taking packs of ranged attackers out of the fight for a few seconds. Meanwhile, the Decrepify on Striking is an offensive effect, that only impacts the enemy directly around you. At level 1 it also lasts 4 seconds. It’d be an alternative to Reaper’s Toll that only procs half as much of the time. But again, this is the kind of change that takes testing time in PTR, and so I’m not sure it’s a good choice for this PTR.
Nadir is a very defensive runeword and I can’t really get a grasp on the flavor of it. I don’t know if +50 Attack Rating would help, and I don’t see how it fits the theme. I guess I just feel Nadir needs a lot more thought than just throwing stats at it, and I don’t think this PTR is the one to do that in.
Principle is okay, as you said it’s a bit lack luster. I was actually the one that suggested adding Attack Rating to it in your general thread, as that is one of the things lacking. The main problem Principle has it that at level 53 it has a lot of competitors. Going by the theme of O-skill on the class armors, this needs that. Of course, the paladin skill that fits the most with “Principle” is Conviction. Can we handle a +1 Conviction O-skill? True that it couldn’t be worn on a Merc, since the player would need to select the aura and run it on their right click button. Would that over power the Sorceress or Fire Druid? Probably, you could get + All Skills to get it up to level 15 or so. Better than Infinity. So I guess Defiance would be the safer O-Skill to go with “Principle.” Still, I’d like to at least test it out, and that means again better done in a PTR with more item balance focus. This is a buff that needs a lot of thought and planning. I don’t think it can be a small change in a PTR focused elsewhere.
Radiance certainly needs a bit of buffing. Again, I was the one that suggested adding Faster Cast. I still don’t understand why you want damage to the undead on this. Is it for flavor purposes? Because I don’t see how this makes it better for anyone using it. It’s obviously designed for a caster with its + Mana. Nor do I see a melee character wearing this to do more 50% more damage to the undead. If I was to add something flavorful… maybe Confuse curse? That would be a defensive effect that would benefit a caster or a ranged enemy, and it would be in theme with the Radiance from your helm confusing the enemy and blinding it to make it hard to see what it was hitting.
- Radiance
Nef - Sol - Ith
+20% Chance to Cast level 10 Confuse When Struck
+75% Enhanced Defense
+30 Defense Vs. Missile
+10 To Energy
+10 To Vitality
15% Damage Goes To Mana
Magic Damage Reduced By 3
+33 To Mana
Damage Reduced By 7
+5 To Light Radius
+10% Faster Cast
That would make Confuse last 7 seconds in Nightmare (and 3.5 in Hell) and make this a decent counter to packs of ranged enemies. It would also give faster cast to compliment the increased Mana and Energy.
Rain is another runeword where I was the one that suggested the + to Hurricane, though as a +1 O-skill. So I don’t disagree with the change you suggest, but again you don’t increase the Chance to Cast just like with Enlightenment. Those issues need to be addressed as well.
- Rain
Ort - Mal - Ith
15% To Cast Level 15 Cyclone Armor When Struck
25% To Cast Level 15 Twister On Striking
+2 To Druid Skills
+100-150 To Mana
Lightning Resist +30%
Magic Damage Reduced By 7
15% Damage Taken Goes to Mana
+1 Hurricane
That makes this rune word a good choice for a Shapeshifter with the Cyclone armor protecting from elemental damage, and the Twister providing some Stun. You can also cast Hurricane, which can support a Shapeshifter even at low levels because of the chill effect. It’s also not overpowered as an O-skill since unsynergiezed Hurricane just doesn’t do enough damage. Additionally, the huge + Mana just does not fit with its focus on chance to Cast. Either change that to Life, or add Faster Cast for a caster build. Again, this is a runeword that I’d like to take more time testing.
Wind, why is this supposed to be focused on a Blade Fury Assassin? You never explain why, you just put it forward as cool. This runeword certainly has problems. Tornado is basically useless unless synergized, so why is it there on Striking? Twister charges might be useful for stunning things, but charges need reworking themselves, which is a much larger change than this PTR seems able to handle. None of your proposed changes actually address any of these issues with the current things on the Runeword, you’re just adding things to make it fit a Blade Fury Assassin, why? Those things need to be thought out and explained. Especially for such an expensive and flavorful runeword to suddenly be restricted to one build in one class.
If we are going to address a wind themed runeword, then let it be Zephyr. (Zephyr means west wind). Zephyr is lacking in damage (Insight is 200-260% ED), lacking in attack speed (Edge is 35%), and for some bizarre reason the Twister Chance to Cast is When Struck rather than on Striking. On a weapon… on a bow… What it does have going for it is -25% Target Defense, but you can get that just from a gemmed bow with an Eth in it. Okay, so what to do with this, since Insight has the enhanced damage wrapped up, maybe give this the hits a lot niche?
- Zephyr
Ort - Eth
100% Chance to Cast level 3 Twister on Striking
+25% Faster Run/Walk
+75% Increased Attack Speed
+66% Enhanced Damage
-25% Target Defense
+333 to Attack Rating
+25 Defense
Adds 1-50 lightning damage
Okay, now on striking it always casts a Twister which does little damage, but does stun. So it’s useful as a defensive effect. Needs more attack rating to make sure you are always hitting. Looked like the 33 ED and 66 AR repeating numbers had some significance, but 666 is a bad number to use, so switch Enhanced Damage and Attack Rating, to give a small Enhanced Damage boost, and making the +Attack Rating the 333 number. Increased the Attack Speed to +75% to make this the fastest bow around, fitting for a “Zephyr” bow. Since you have such low damage you might as well hit things quickly. Now this bow is just constantly blasting out Twisters to keep the enemy stunned and at a distance. It’s not going to be the typical choice, but it’s flavorful and has some possible uses for defense.
As you might be able to see from my more extended comments, it’s not that I disagree that these runewords need buffing, just that I disagree with how haphazard you are treating. Pushing for changes in this PTR need to either be small, specific, and relatively straightforward (see my suggestions on skill changes), or comprehensively extensive (see my suggestion on buffing Sets) where there isn’t really any expectation that the devs will do all of it, but rather gives them so many options that they can pick whichever ones they prefer to do this PTR.
You’re thread here is in between, neither specific enough to really expect they will all be implemented, but lacking in details as to why a specific change should be made, and not comprehensive enough to give the devs the option of which ones to implement.
If I were you, I’d focus on one, maybe two runewords to really push on promoting change for. From looking at your list, I’d put Enlightenment as the runeword with the best argument for specific changes, and a clear comparison (Stealth as a lower runeword in the same category, and Skin of the Vipermagi as a higher alternative in the same category - conclusion that Enlightenment should be inbetween those two in power).
The other possible runeword that seems straight forward enough to push for changes is Radiance, as it has a clear peer competitor to compare to (Lore) and has a possible empty niche to fill (lack of faster cast on runeword helms).
The other runewords on your list seem to me to either need other problems addressed first, or more thought and testing than can be expected in this PTR focused on Terror Zones.
