Oath base for Frenzy Barb thoughts/discussion

Barbarian
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I know Small Crescent is a good option, but I am thinking swords so I can have a Lawbringer PB off-hand.

My understanding of Frenzy mechanics is that off-hand IAS isn’t counted either way (for or against) attack speed, correct?

The 4 OS 1H options are Cyrptic and Conquest sword. Seems Cryptic is common for the [-10] base speed.

Using the d2 attack speed calculator with an Oath (50% WIAS) and 0% IAS PB in off hand I come up with 2.77 Attacks per Second for Conquest and 3.12 APS for Cryptic assuming lvl 20 Frenzy and no other IAS. Since the comparison is purely between bases, I figure any off-weapon IAS cancels out (you’d have the same regardless of base*), same with skills or other modifiers. Base average damage of Conquest is 45 vs. 41 for Cryptic. Cryptic has the super wise min/max range whereas Conquest is higher min but lower max.

Doing the math on attacks per second to get damage per second I end up with:

Cryptic: Min DPS: 13.85 - Max DPS: 213.29 - Average DPS: 113.57
Conquest: Min DPS: 102.49 - Max DPS: 146.81 - Average DPS: 124.65

So despite being slower and having lower max damage, the Conquest sword actually wins out in average DPS due to not having such low min damage.

On the 2H side, Balrog Blade has the same base speed and average damage as Conquest, so it would be the same average DPS.

BB has range adder 2, Conquest 0, and Cryptic 1, but I’m not sure how big of a deal that is for Frenzy when you’re running right up to the enemy anyway. I have heard having mis-matched range can be a problem though, and PB is 1 like Cryptic.

So the above suggests Conquest is actually the better base for Oath, pending range concerns, is that valid or can someone poke holes in my math?

*It’s possible this is a poor assumption since room could potentially be made for more or less off weapon IAS in a build depending on what is needed and break points. The above was meant for a quick comparison of bases, but a full optimization of off-weapon IAS possibilities may prove otherwise.

Anyone have any other thoughts, input or considerations I should think about?

The plan is for PvM and just a fun build, potentially maybe upgrading Lawbringer to something better if I’m able to get it eventually.

EDIT: I was reading the speed calculator wrong, and looking at the base 0 IAS table number, which didn’t include the 50% WIAS from Oath, rather than the output. I also had a dumb error in my spreadsheet. The Oath Only IAS APS for Cryptic Sword would be 4.16 vs. 3.84 for Conquest Sword and Balrog Blade.

The numbers still end up with Conquest and BB ending up with 172.8 average DPS vs. 170.56 average DPS for the Cryptic sword, so it’s much less of a difference. That’s also assuming a non-eth in terms of the base numbers, but I’d always want to make Oath in an eth to take advantage of Indestructible mod.

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Are you going to hork? Because I made a LB phaseblade as an off-hand and it will definitely affect your horking of elite mobs. The “Monsters Rest in Peace” proc means you can’t do anything with the corpse if LB makes the killing blow. It also applies cold damage which can shatter mobs.

The decrep IS super nice, but the other attributes can be frustrating if your’e doing something like trav runs.

Btw: I farmed an Eth Blarog Blade to make into an Oath, its really nice.

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Since posting this I actually just dropped an Eth Balrog Blade, so I will probably go that route. I had previously traded for an eth Cyrptic sword, so I have both of those options available to me I guess.

Horking is a good point, definitely. My main barb currently is an IK WW barb, and I do hork w/ him a decent amount, but IK also gives freeze and as you say, that eliminates corpses.

I was thinking the LB PB would be cool for the Sanc aura also, killing some PIs and making them leachable, but I could also see the downsides there.

I doubt I’ll be able to afford a Death anytime soon, and similarly I expect the Lo for Grief to be far out for me, but could see making Crescent Moon in the 3 OS PB I have instead of LB, for another inexpensive off hand option with the static.

Was your eBB Oath a Frenzy barb? What did you end up settling on for off hand? I could see it also making a fun weapon to use by itself 2H for a non Frenzy build…I think based on my calcs in the OP I’m leaning to use that rather than the eCryptic sword I have.

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I use a grief/pb mainhand and lb/balrog’s on the offhand. A few things about LB as an off-hand.

It doesn’t supply much damage. You really only use it for the decrep proc.

Decrep proc is not useful where most mobs die before it procs anyway. It’s mainly useful for act bosses and ubers, and for trash when you are surrounded by a very large group.

LB does so little damage compared to grief that the rest in peace on LB barely interferes with FI at all. Grief gets about 90% of the kills.

Sanctuary aura adds a lot of damage against undead, but it also knocks them back, and spreads them out which is not great for the decrep proc. Grief will one shot any undead affected by this aura, but I have to chase them around. So it’s a real mixed bag.

No reason to use a pb for the lb, or for any offhand. A higher damage base is better for the off-hand.

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Grief is obviously the goal, but probably not going to be in my budget any time soon. Does make me think maybe 2x Oath while I wait.

The knock back from Sanctuary is a good point. I was just excited by another tool to deal with PIs and the prospect of more enemies becoming leachable, but it does sound like the juice may not be worth the squeeze.

I also considered putting LB on an A5 merc and getting the benefits that way w/o gimping my off hand damage, however I think the downsides you mentioned would apply there still, plus you lose Might and you can always have A2 Might merc proc decrep with Reapers.

Reasons for me thinking PB in the LB was:

  1. I have a 3 OS PB lol
  2. Since there’s no ED modifier anyway, the lower base damage seemed like less of a “waste”. As you said, it was more for a “stat stick” with Sanct/Decrep

I was also considering Crescent Moon (still could be done in said PB) as off hand for the static, but I guess the low PB damage would still be painful there, even though it does have some ED. I think I have a few Legend Swords kicking around which might be a better option. I have a few other white Balrog Blades I think too (non-eth and non-Sup) that might be worth taking a gamble with cube socketing on.

Thanks for the extra info!

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Oath has a lovely IAS on it, making it perfect for mainhand. I always like to have a phaseblade of some kind in offhand as offhand IAS does not count toward frenzy. Therefore Oath (i use balrog or hghland blade) would be well matched with an Azurewrath, Lightsabre, or runeword in PB offhand.

IN truth, i have never used a crescent moon phaseblade in offhand, and wonder how good the static would be. I always go Lawbringer.

In short, keep those IAS breakpoints nice and achieveable if possible :slight_smile:

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Cool thanks for the additional input!

I think I’m pretty sold on making Oath in the eth BB that I had drop (non-sup though sadly). I was assuming the nice IAS would make that main hand, for sure.

Off hand is still a bit up in the air then with all the advice I’ve gotten. I have the PB with 3OS already and LB runes are not overly expensive so I may just roll with eOath BB MH and LB PB in offhand to start and then change things up. When you did LB in off-hand was it in PB? I assume so based on you saying you like PB in offhand and always go LB. Having the low PB base damage seem to be a big hit when every other hit is low damage?

Static on Crescent seemed like it would be cool for sure, but I could see it not working out as well for frenzy off hand in actuality.

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Lawbringer offhand always in PB, as there is no real enhanced damage coming from LB runeword making it perfect. LB instead is there for the proc, the aura and the elemental damage so a fast base is best.

With oath in mainhand and any sort of phaseblade in offhand, you are already very close to the max IAS breakpoint. Also, i used that exact combo (BB Oath, PB LB) all the way up until i got a grief. It was excellent.

As soon as you make Lawbringer, undead are no longer a threat. Places like Chaos Sanctuary are infinitely easier.

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Cool! I’ve been playing around with a few other characters so my frenzy barb is still lvl 12 LOL but I like having some of his gear planned out along the way.

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Also I’m calling it here now that RNJesus will give me 220% ED on Oath :man_facepalming:

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Hopefully not, i got 310% on mine and was super happy with it

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