Necromancer concerns

General Discussion
1

I wrote an earlier post about some things I would like to see tweaked about Diablo 2 remastered but after looking into more and more gameplay I found something that really concerns an OG player like myself. A lot of what I have to say may come off as picky or really critical but it’s only because I care so much about the original

The necromancer has always been my all time favorite class and I have always always played as him.

  Skeletons:

In new gameplay I have seen I was not happy to see that the skeletons all had armor and helms and were harder to distinguish between an enemy or ally. Part of what I loved in the original is that my skeletons (both warrior and Magi) were all made up of white bones. My endgame Necromancer would have as many skeletons as possible and overrun monsters with them. The necromancer looks good with white bone armor and I don’t think his minions should be dressed in identical armor. If they are going to have armor then they should have like 4 different types like the magi skeletons have 4 different elements. That would be more aesthetically pleasing at least. I really care about this

  Necromancer visuals:

Character selection:
Something seems off in the 5 minutes of gameplay I saw. In the class selection near the campfire the necromancer seems older looking than what I would have expected as a remaster of the original. His voice sounds younger. Maybe like 35-40ish years old but I feel like he looks closer to 60 at least. I also which the skull on his shoulder looked more like a giant human skull than an animal skull like it did in the original.

In-game:
His hair also looks a bit unusual in the gameplay as if its all stuck together in a thin strand. It also is something I didn’t notice as much in the original but in the remastered gameplay I find it to be more obtrusive. (maybe it’s just me) His character also seems curvy or more feminine in one of the armor pieces. It makes his legs look thicker and his waste really tight. I actually thought after seeing the gameplay that the remaster was doing gender selection for the characters like in Diablo 3. And yes perhaps that was just that particular scene I saw.

I don’t like that the faulds flap so much around his waste in the gameplay or at least fan out while moving. Again I know I’m being really picky but I don’t like thinking my necromancer is wearing a skirt or something. Faulds of steel or iron would probably not flap as much as shown in-game. I like what is being done for the most part and I like how he looks. I just remember the necromancer was wearing more chainmail, mesh, or ripped red cloth around his waste.

I get that these comments sound picky and critical but I want them to do the character and original game justice

2

I just want to echo the first point you made about having more trouble distinguishing between your summoned skeletons, and enemy skeletons.

It’s obviously very important to be able to distinguish summons from monsters. I am not sure D2R is doing a good enough across the board job highlighting differences using colors and shapes, the same way that D2 did in every aspect. Some models are perfect, and maybe some others need a bit of love. Similarly, it’s important to easily see a player’s character class from another. Some classes in D2R have a very similar shape and color scheme making it a bit hard to differentiate at a quick glance.

This is a challenge in a lot of modern games where everything just kind of looks the same due to a self-inflicted “realistic” brown and grey color palettes, and an engine trying to process to much pixelated detail, that much gets lost and blurs together. D2R appears to be guilty of this to a small extent when it comes to monsters blending in the the background environments, or sometimes with each other. The lighting and color effects from spells, etc. look fantastic though, but maybe a bit more attention needs to be paid to some monster models, etc.

Skeletons:
The original game is much easier to look at and distinguish what is going on and what mobs are there at a quick glance, despite few pixels. For example, take a look here at the different types of skeletons:
https://diablo-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Skeleton_(Diablo_II)

You’ve got Skeletons, Returned, Burning Dead, Horrors, etc. All of which have the same model, but they are quite distinguishable at a glance because of the vibrant color usage.

Fallen:
Also please have a look at the current coloring of the fallen in D2R here:
https://blizzard.gamespress.com/cdn/propressroom/Content/Artwork/Eva/BlizzardLive/artwork/2021/02/19225232-b02f667d-c8d4-47fb-947a-a6087273edce/Diablo_II_Pally_Zoom.png?w=1024&maxheight=4096&mode=pad&format=png
I believe what I’m seeing are the blue version of the fallen, but in this screenshot it looks more muted and grey than blue. It needs to be colored more in line with:
https://diablo-archive.fandom.com/wiki/File:Carver_Shaman_(Diablo_II).gif

Please don’t let this be another game where everything blurs together and looks the same due to an ugly realistic brown and grey color palette.

edit:
The red fallen look great from what I see here though:
https://blizzard.gamespress.com/cdn/propressroom/Content/Artwork/Eva/BlizzardLive/artwork/2021/02/19225232-b02f667d-c8d4-47fb-947a-a6087273edce/Diablo_II_Cathedral.png?w=1024&maxheight=4096&mode=pad&format=png
Hopefully all monsters are this distinguishable when this game is final.

3

i think more you watch all class in the game you will spot all these issue
some character look to have amost the same size the same running animation and is become confusing the time everything moving , i hope every character have is own 3d model and animation , now the deference is not enough and sometime everything look the game

4

Yeah I agree, some of the running animations are not great. Sorceress looks completely different for example and it’s awful to look at.

5

i think d2re dev team really make a very nice work
but this game still need some work
i hope the dev team will push the final mile to make this remake a master piece

my best advise take 5 min open d2 lod

pick up every class watch the model weight and size and watch the class running animation and the idle pose animation , and you will realize quick what is wrong or lost or dont traselate well to d2re , peace

6

I agree that it should be easy to tell between your skeletons and other monsters but if they are just getting around to a technical alpha, I don’t imagine that any visuals of that nature are set in stone. It’s just hard to say how many of the devs are looking at our chats here in the forums.

7

Wow I am honestly really impressed with your response. I absolutely agree with all of these points you’ve made. The skeletons and Fallen need to have their original look and not look gray or indistinguishable from other types.

I am also really glad you supported what I had to say in my original post, a lot of the times I post on forums I usually say things people find controversial about the game and I always expect a couple of people to be critical.

Thanks for your response!

8

Thanks for the compliment! I think for the most part D2R looks really good, but yeah a lot of modern games struggle with this issue.

When you get really complex, realistic backgrounds and high res models, things can look very usy and blurred together. So its crucial thr devs really nail the monster model identifiers like color and shape so they stand out from the background and each other.

9

That was my first reaction, too, but:

Why is that important? You can’t control your minions anyway, you can always see, how many are alive. Actually it would like like an awesome chaotic battle, if you can‘t distinguish them.

10

Good argument. So tell me, if there are 2 skeletons fighting, what do you need to have a super ovious distinction for? I played Necros only in normal. There you literally don’t need it.

And before you insult me, rather stop answering. I know you are not capable of giving reasonable arguments. You only complain about the amazon not being “sexy enough”…

11
  1. Aesthetics, and consistency with the source material
  2. Practicality (Good to know which monsters will attack you and which ones won’t. If all skeletons look the same, playing a summoner Necro on Hardcore would be a very different experience where there is a lot of undead.)

Coming from the guy who made a thread about how the Amazon face was fine. And it’s true, the Amazon in D2R is awful, where the original was a bombshell. This isn’t really disputed except by the blind.

Everything you say is trollish so I’m surprised how sensitive you are. Maybe try and write better posts so people take you seriously.

12

I never said, the amazon’s face were fine. Again, you are just telling non-sense. In fact, I said mutliple times, I don’t like it. I was just pointing out your exaggeration on purely superficial topics, about a game, that most likely can’t be closer to D2, than the devs actually seem to achieve it with their approach.

Aesthetics are completely subjective.

Great, but why? The way, the aggro system works (you can’t pull aggro from your minions, as long as you stay away from the mob afaik), makes the enemies not attack you, once they are attacking your minions. You also can’t control them at all and you can see, when you have to cast more, since they are displayed as party members.

I am not saying, there is no speicific argument for a clear visual distinction. But if there is, I would like someone with a brain to tell me.

EDIT: Even if I don’t like you for being unecessarily rude, I have to admit you’re right after thinking about it. Just for the sake of a clear overview of what’s even happening in the battle, they should be clearly distinguishable. Otherwise you don’t know where to sommun new minions for example.

13

Here’s a quote of you from another thread:

You have many other similar comments indicating you are fine either way and really don’t care. You just want them to rush the game out without fixing things. This is why Warcraft 3 Reforged was a disaster. You are naiive to trust Blizzard were they to rush a game out, and you are naiive to think they would fix things like character appearnces after launch.

You don’t seem to care whether or not they change it if you’re willing to risk it until post release. You have no reason to be butting in on people’s comments about the model appearances. If you don’t care, stay out of it.

You seem to have selectively left out the part where I said, “Aesthetics, and consistency with the source material.”

Yes, there are many practical reasons why it’s important to distinguish monsters from each other. Spend more time reflecting on the thing you’re disagreeing with before responding next time.

14

WTH? I never said, the amazon is fine. Neither have I ever said something about rushing the development. Man, I was exclusively talking about superficial things, like a face, which you don’t even see ingame. I am very much into, what should be changed / improved upon and what not. In fact, you are the one, only complaining about faces… I am constantly commenting on all kind of mechanical / balancing / QoL content.

There is no value in making something EXACTLY like before, if there is no reason for it. D2R is a remaster, yes. But that does not mean, that things will be 100% the same. Especially not things, that you made up in your fantasy back than, since you can not even see details of faces in Vanilla D2.

Go home, man. I kindly asked, whether it is important and you answered with “You are just retarded”. You even deleted your post afterwards! Tell me something about reflecting myself! You are behaving absolutely disgusting in here and that is probably because you are anonymous in the forums… No respect for such a weak behaviour.

15

You have many posts stating you’d rather Blizzard bring the game out early instead of fixing issues during development. That attitude goes directly against having a feedback forum for the game prior to release. I am hoping to convince you to change your attitude on this.

You can in the campfire screen and in the massive amount of concept art. We’ve been through this already and you know my stance on the importance of concept art was for the in-game visuals, and the campfire scene being accurate.

I am at home. That post was deleted by an admin. I still think that deleted post accurately described your prior posts.

I disagree, I am putting forth arguments to describe issues that I see with D2R because I care. I want them to look into these issues, rather than rush the game out. I am using this forum to point these issues out, and point out holes in other posters’ arguments. If can’t handle criticism, then you shouldn’t be on a forum. Either that or stop responding to my arguments because yours have too many holes, and I will continue to point them out.

16

Never said that, not a single time. I literally only said, I’d rather play the game a week earlier, than waiting for it, just for a face getting fixed.

So weird. VV is actually caring for so many details, they are rendering the freaking garlic in a tavern in act2, nobody ever has seen before and you are talking about rushing a game… I just don’t know what you are talking about.

“Your are a retard” is nothing I would consider productive criticism.

xD cheers, dreamer. You don’t have any arguments, except for “the amazon is ugly” and “it’s not like in D2”.

17

It’s not hard to find posts made by you, saying they should not worry about character models in favor of releasing the game early. Don’t make false claims. This is irrefutable so stop arguing against this. For example:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/stop-complaining-about-characters-face/27880/10

Vicarious Visions / Blizzard is doing a great job overall and seem to be taking their time. I never made the claim they are not, but you are pushing for it. I don’t want to support rushing the game out without fixing things. Unfinished areas, including visuals are not guaranteed to be done after release, and in many cases become much harder to change post-release. What if they were to start mass producing marketing materials featuring the new character models? Releasing the game early with the hope of fixing things post release is an unwise and dangerous thing to promote, and defeats the purpose of these forums.

Additionally, if you did a quick search through my other posts, I talk about many other topics other than the amazon. Stop derailing the thread with false and irrelevant claims. You may be able to distract other less intelligent people with this strategy but it won’t work on me.

Anyway, I believe you already said in your above edit that my point was correct, after you disagreed with it. So are you done here? If not, then stay on topic. This thread is about the necromancer skeleton models, and necromancer visuals per the OP’s post, so if you have anything more to say about that, then please go ahead.

18

I personally will play with the older graphics, did you see if they still look the same if you toggle ?

19

We haven’t seen a presentation of the toggleable old graphics style yet but they have said that you can simply toggle to the old game engine’s graphics instantly, similar to Starcraft Remastered. Not sure how they’re going to do this from a technical perspective, but yes, it may be advantageous to play in that mode in some cases, depending on how busy the screen gets. Looking forward to seeing it in action and having better material to compare the old vs new models.

A presentation of this may help clear up some of these uncertainties we have currently of monster/character models.

20

All I want for necro, is to have permanent iron golem from gear, even after death.