Missed Opportunity For Holy Bolt, FoH and... Sanctuary!

General Discussion
1

I think Blizzard is missing an opportunity with their approach to FoH/Holy Bolt and… Sanctuary. I think a really fun, thematic Healing/Support Cleric build could emerge with some tweaking of these three skills.

Changes compared to D2R 2.3:

Holy Bolt

  • Change synergy from Blessed Hammer to Sanctuary at 20% (down from 50%)
  • Fist of the Heavens synergy 50% => 20%
  • Can now target Demons
  • Can now target targets other than Undead and Demons at 25% effectiveness
  • Now pierces through targets (enemies and allies)
  • Prayer synergy increased from 15% to 20%

Fist of the Heavens

  • The main strike of Fist of the Heavens deals Magic Damage instead of Lightning
  • Change synergy from Holy Shock to Sanctuary at 5% (down from 7%), applies to created bolts and the Main strike
  • Holy Bolt synergy 15% => 10%, applies to created bolts and the Main Strike
  • Slightly reduced Main strike damage scaling per level (balanced out by synergy changes)
  • Prayer synergy 20% healing on FoH holy bolts
  • Targeting restrictions and damage effectiveness applies to the Main strike as well as created Holy Bolts.
  • Can now target Demons
  • Can now target targets other than Undead and Demons at 25% effectiveness
  • Update tooltip to show the healing of FoH holy bolts
  • Casting Delay will no longer share its cooldown with other skills that have Casting Delays
  • Tooltip updated to now display Casting Delay
  • No longer forces you to attack when out of mana
  • Improved targeting functionality for auto acquiring enemies

Sanctuary

  • Change synergy from Cleansing to Holy Bolt
  • Add Fist of the Heavens synergy at 7%
  • Add Prayer synergy to add team healing (similar to how Prayer synergizes with Cleansing)
  • Aura pulse now effects Demons

I like this for a number of reasons

  • It is thematic.
  • Magic damage only build. Removes the benefit of a dual element attack.
  • 25% effectiveness outside of Demons and Undead is a compromise for being forced into a single element.
  • These changes to holy bolt put its damage only slightly ahead of Bone Spear and requires 60 points instead of the 2.4 proposed 40. The proposed 2.4 changes make Holy Bolt deal more than twice the damage of bone spear at less than half the skill investment. My proposed change dials that back to sane levels.
  • Sanctuary will get some play on an actual Paladin and provide some valuable crowd control/safety for the build.
  • It is a complete build at 80 skill points that aligns the paladin around group support and magic damage that specializes in targeting Undead and Demons but can still push through other targets with difficulty (and is hard countered by Magic Immunes)
5 Likes
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I’m not sure I agree with the numbers but I agree with the core points that bring out a cohesive Clerical Paladin theme:

  1. Make Sanctuary useful and synergized to the Clerical skills.

  2. Make Sanctuary damage Demons as well as Undead.

  3. Make FoH Holy Bolts do the same thing normal Holy Bolt does: damage and heal.

If I can offer a different solution to the Undead and Demon damage vs Animal types: perhaps make Conversion, which is a prerequisite of FoH, more effective against non Undead and Demons? Thematically, the Paladin destroys Undead and Demons while turning natural creatures to his side. It’s thematic and interesting to maintain the different play on Elemental immunity in the creature typing immunity.

3 Likes
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I like your changes.

2 Likes
4

The numbers would make Holy Bolt a solid skill to use without totally outclassing similar skills like bone spear that have a higher skill points investment.

The main hit and holy bolt aspects of FoH would deal similar damage as they do now, just fully converted over to magic damage.

Sanctuary would pick up some heating support and a decent amount of damage to boot (more than live for sure).

What numbers don’t you like?

I don’t love the idea of conversion in this build because it is a caster build that doesn’t otherwise worry about attack rating or trying to get into melee range. Thematically it’s pretty neat though, agreed.

Thanks, Zax! I have modded my single player game to work like this and it’s one of my favorite builds.

I even made an act 3 merc that plays the build and he’s really effective. He runs a prayer aura, casts holy bolt most the time with a small chance to cast FoH.

1 Like
5

I like the idea, but I don’t think sanctuary should be a synergy for holy bolt. Instead, it should boost the damage of holy bolt in the same way that concentration boosts the damage of blessed hammer.

Would it be OP to have sanctuary affect demons too? Even if they have to reduce the damage.

I don’t think sanctuary should multiply the damage of holy bolt like concentration does to blessed hammer, but just add to it. Like flat stacking.

Thus, Paladins who want to use holy bolt and FOH as their main skills would select sanctuary as their aura to boost its damage. Changing the damage type of the main cast of FOH from lightning to magic is also a good idea.

I do think that we/Blizzard would need to be careful with balancing this, so that it does not end up as overpowered as blessed hammer. I think there have to be valid reasons why you would choose blessed hammer, such as raw damage output and ability to affect animals. Else everyone would choose holy bolt because it is easier to aim and pierces.

1 Like
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Holy bolt should just be raw magic damage. No restriction to enemy types.
Change my mind. :slight_smile:

1 Like
7

Numbers wise holy bolt would deal less damage than it does on live (because it’s been opened up to effect demons and because it’s can hit other things at 25% effectiveness).

FoH will deal the same or similar damage as it does now, but deals magic damage which can’t be boosted by conviction, facets, or other gear. It had targeting restrictions placed on it and 25% malice for things that aren’t undead or demons. The trade off is that it is magic and has fewer immunes.

I wouldn’t be opposed to sanctuary working with Holt Bolt and/or FoH the same way concentration does with Blessed Hammer. It is a horse apiece really, but more strongly pushes you to use it in this build instead of perhaps putting 20 points into it and not using it.

As for Sanctuary, it doesn’t deal a lot of damage to begin with, but it deals some and has a nice defensive effect.

The last bit you didn’t really mention is how Prayer would synergize with all three abilities to grant healing and regeneration to your self and team, which I think will make using Sanctuary very desirable considering you can’t equip any other aura to boost damage directly and you’ve already spent 20 points into it. I do like the flexibility of being able to swap to another aura and not tank your damage for specific use cases, like perhaps Salvation or Cleansing.

1 Like
8

I’m not explicitly saying the numbers are wrong, more that I’m focused on making a good class fantasy.

As for the Conversion not being synergistic to the build from a gameplay perspective, agreed. But that’s by design.

A Cold Sorceress investing points into Fire to hybridize and cover elemental immunities doesn’t synergize with that other element. She’s doing it to broaden her effectiveness, allowing her to combat monsters she otherwise couldn’t.

Same idea for the Paladin, but his hybridization is based on creature type rather than element. You’re free to remain a pure caster and have no good solutions for Animal type monsters, focusing on your holy destruction of Demons and Undead.

Some other thoughts to add to the discussion:

I like the idea of Cleansing and Sanctuary synergizing with each other more, or with Holy Bolt and Fist of the Heavens. Perhaps Cleansing can provide its damage boost to Holy Bolt, and Sanctuary adds its knockback to Holy Bolt.

I’d definitely like to do more for Fist of the Heavens as well, but it’s hard to do too much that’s not Undead and Demon specific, due to PvP and its significance there. Switching to damaging only Demons and Undead like Holy Bolt would be a “fix” to prevent it from being overpowered, but then obviously it’s simply nerfed to oblivion for PvP. Perhaps this is where I like the idea of 100% damage to Demons and Undead, but 25% damage to Animals.

9

lol
You want ONE skill that damages all ememies basically. Hammerdin 2.0?

Sure Paladin is not OP enough

10

There are still magic immunes and you take a 75% damage penalty against non undead and demons.

Don’t see how that is more OP than FoH throwing magic damage at demons and undead while also crushing things with lightning. Weird to try and argue that a singular damage type build is more universally capable than a dual damage type build like current FoH. Seems like a knee jerk reaction to me.

You are talking about a difference in theme and synergy mechanics while I am talking about how, from a gameplay perspective, switching off FoH or a holy bolt to go into melee as a caster to whack a few animals wouldn’t be fun or fluid. A sorceress is still casting fireballs and frozen orbs from a distance, they just aren’t the same element. All the sudden your caster has to worry about FhR, block rate, chance, and worst of all attack rating so that they can do something that doesn’t really fit their overall playstyle. Idk, I don’t think I’d enjoy that too much.

11

Good point and I appreciate how different it is to be wading in melee versus being a pure caster. Again, I’d argue by design. It’s cool that Diablo 2 allows you to do lots of different things: able make specific builds that diverge from typical or obvious specializations - however, a “complete” paladin should still have physical prowess.

From the Game Manual, on Paladins, page 42:

http:// nyerguds.arsaneus-design .com/manuals/Diablo%20II/Diablo%20II%20-%20English.pdf

To ensure the success of future missions, the Church set about training holy warriors, Paladins, to accompany and safeguard their missionaries. These “Protectors of the Word” proved to be more successful at converting the native peoples than the Priests they were assigned to defend. Impressing the locals with daring deeds, powerful weapons, and martial prowess was far more convincing than the condemnations of a softspoken monk.

There’s good content there outside that excerpt too. Point is, you’re allowed to make a caster-only Cleric paladin, but to make a balanced and broadly effective paladin, you must fill the complete class fantasy.

The pure caster cleric paladin would be extremely effective at clearing Chaos Sanctuary, but might struggle wading through Act 1 swamps. That’s ok, because you’ve deliberately built your paladin for a specific task. From a meta-gaming perspective, it’s probably a better build to focus on Chaos Sanctuary farming. But there’s still the option for an immersive Act 1 - Act 5 full, balanced, caster and melee build.

My ideas don’t have to be what’s implemented, but the fantasy should shine through.

As an additional thought: perhaps Blizzard felt the same way, which is why martial skills like Sacrifice, Zeal, Vengeance, and Conversion are prerequisites to Fist of the Heavens. Combine that martial side with the magical Holy Bolt and Blessed Hammer side and you get the full-powered holy warrior Paladin.