it’s just ridiculous how powerful it is for a level 27 item, isn’t it?
Here’s my best argument:
If you half its bonuses (1 skill, 12-18 FCR, 44-56 mana, 11 vitality, 28 FHR) - everyone would still use it most of the time
So that is exactly what I propose to do with it. Half it. Note that I only am talking about sword here, not the shield (please don’t bring it up here, make a separate post if you wish)
However it would make it competitive with fun mid game unique items like Razorswitch, Suicide Branch, Spectral Shard, Ume’s Lament, Malestrom, The Iron Jang B0ng, Blackhand Key, Chromatic Ire;
Maybe we would even see someone make Memory runeword for a mid game sorc.
Players would be more excited to go check what orb does Anya give your sorc for saving her.
Even stumbling upon 40 fire res\20 FCR wand in the shop, or a +3 (your skill of choice)\20 FCR wand\staff\scepter would be more exciting.
I agree that we need to be nerfing for serious maximum achievement of potential. On this occasion, i think just asking for higher runes might do the job. Like Grief, its just far to cheap.
Oh just the sword? It’s not like te Paladin can’t use both sword and shield at 25 whereas every other class requires at least 54.
Also, spirit is a level 25 runeword. It’s not really available at 25 in the beginning of the LADDER. See topic below
Also, how is it any different in terms of power compared to Honor (+160% ED) or Insight (+200-260% ED)? Nothing even remotely comes close in terms of power from low level sets or uniques
Care to elaborate how Spirit is exceptionally powerful when compared to LEAF which is even cheaper and more potent for fire sorceresses. Spirit bases can’t drop in Normal as socketed items are capped at 3 sockets in Normal but you can buy LEAF bases from vendors.
Futhermore, we should probably also Stealth which is a far superior armor piece than anything available at 17 and is dirt cheap.
While we are on the nerf wagon, we should also destroy Insight as it gives a massive advantage to casters at level 27 through meditation aura and it also provides a massive damage weapon to the a2 merc. Unique spears and polearms can’t even match its damage in the mid 40s level requirements.
On the upper end, we should definitely nerf BOTD as no unique can even remotely get close to the +400 ED it provides in its eth base…
So in your mind, it’s not OK that it’s a cheap and way overpowered mid game weapon, but the fact it’s a cheap and way overpowered end game shield is just fine and should stay?
No thanks. Not to mention having the same runeword with WAY weaker effects depending on what you socket it into is just ridiculous. Just don’t allow spirit to be socketed into weapons at all at that point.
That is not correct. Swords get 4 socket starting from item level 25 (a little bit of late act 3, half of act 4, and all of act 5, and the cow level), which is about exactly when you start finding the runes for it (Amn, Thul).
Sure leaf gives you a bunch more damage, but…
Only sorceress benefits from the fire staff skills; and if it’s a fireball sorc, she loses out on faster casting speed while doing that
Spirit takes 1 hand (can use a shield with it) which makes it last much longer than leaf
Spirit gives bonus to all skills, not just fire
Spirit gives FCR, and a lot of it
Spirit gives FHR, and a lot of it
Spirit gives vitality and mana, and a lot of them.
If you want to make an argument, at least have an understanding of the game mechanics first…
No monster in Normal difficulty will EVER drop a weapon or armor with more than 3 sockets. This is a hard cap for Normal difficulty. This cap goes to 4 for NM and 6 in Hell. It’s also why NM cows is the best place to farm for 4 soc eth Bill Insight bases and 4 soc crystal swords.
Sorceresses benefit most from the staff, correct. But the +3 fire skills applies to all fire skills in the game. You are the one that brought up Sorc in the OP so lets continue with your comparison:
As for FCR, at low levels the 10 (37FCR) frame or 9 (63 FCR) frames are your only possible break points. You can hit 9 frames with Stealth (25 FCR), Magefists (20 FCR and +1 fire skills, requires level 23), and FCR rings/ammy (10 FCR each).
For FHR, 86 is the desired breakpoint for 7 frames. Stealth provides 25 to get you to 11 (20 FHR). A single Grand charm will bring you to 10 (30 FHR) and you can find a 24 FHR belt starting at ilvl 18 to get you to 8(60 FHR) frames.
As for life and mana, yes they will be lower with leaf but your damage will be 25 to 50% higher at equivalent levels because of the +4 extra skills to your preferred fire skill. You can even get a base with Enchant as well so your Merc does better damage and has more AR.
Best part about it is that you can just farm Countess and vendors for gear. Magefists are the only thing you would need to find/trade during a fresh start. And all this by 19 (minus the magefists).
Good luck making a Spirit on Ladder fresh start before mid to high 30s.
I think he’s confused with being able to get a 4OS in normal and monsters dropping them.
You can get to the proper ilvl for items to have 4 sockets, but the only way to actually get 4OS in normal difficulty is to take a white item of the proper ilvl to larzuk, then he will add 4 OS.
Monsters in normal will never drop 4OS items. Gotta be in at least NM for that.
Crystal swords have to be ilvls 26 to 40 for Larzuk to socket them with 4 sockets which is basically Act 4 and 5. The bigger hinderance for Spirit in a new playthrough is actually the runes. Finding both Thul and Amn may or may not happen before 40. Countess only gets you to Ral and hellforge only does a single rune up to Amn.
Best place to farm Thul and Amn is actually Trav council runs. But even then the drop rate is abysmal.
Once you get to NM though, NM countess runs make it easy to acquire the runes for the sword.
White items cannot drop with more than 3 sockets in normal, it is a difficulty restriction in the game.
diablo wiki says so:
Items can only naturally spawn with a maximum of 3 sockets on normal difficulty, 4 sockets on nightmare and 6 sockets on hell.
So does maxroll GG:
Normal Difficulty has a maximum of 3 Sockets on items.
Nightmare Difficulty has a maximum of 4 Sockets on items.
Hell Difficulty does not have a Socket limit.
Maybe you found a magic item that had the jeweller’s mod? That might be able to roll on normal difficulty? I’m not sure what the lvl restrictions are on that mod, I’ve heard baal on normal can drop it at least. Obviously those are worthless as a runeword base, which is what we’re talking about here.
White items can only drop with 3 though in normal.
maxroll is not perfect for everything but its certainly a very good source for most info
cows might be 1 of the exception to the rule for normal…and thats a first i hear of baal being able to…but i would not rly be surprise as he’s the gate keeper to nightmare
diablo wiki: crystal sword ilvl for 4 sock req ilvl 26-40
areas lvl
outter step 26
plain of despair 26
city of the damned 27
river of flames 27
arreat plateau onward for A5 ilvl 26+
cow lvl ilvl 28
5 sockets is where it get weird in Nightmare(only a few select can spawn with 5 socket in NM)
edit: in maxroll case i could not find anywhere on their site with any statement regarding sockets…not even the drop calculator
edit 2: ok saw where it said naturaly on wiki…still, i’am fairly certain to remember seeing drop as 4os naturaly…meh…maybe next time i farm cows i will get to confirm
Now you’re confusing the maximum sockets an item CAN have, with the maximum sockets that can DROP from monsters.
Like I said, you can take these white items you find in normal to larzuk or recipe them in your horadric cube and get the 4 OS.
But they WILL NOT drop from monsters. You conveniently skipped over that section in the diablo wiki? It’s under “Normal Items” section, starts at the second line:
“Items can only naturally spawn with a maximum of 3 sockets on normal difficulty, 4 sockets on nightmare and 6 sockets on hell.”
d2.maxroll.gg/items/sockets
Under the “Item Generation” section. Beneath the item table and the sacred armor screen shots in that section it goes over the same difficulty restrictions.
theamazonbasin. com/wiki/index.php/Socket
Second bullet point under the 2nd table
“Normal and superior items dropped in Normal can have up to 3 sockets, while those dropped in Nightmare can have up to 4 sockets and those dropped in Hell can have up to 6 sockets.”