Item upgrade Horadric Cube recipes - Any cons?

General Discussion
1

(Hello. Introduction to how I use recipes thus far. You can skip ahead if you want.)

So, I keep most gems I find, or transmute them into their better versions, to have at least 1-2 of each kind and quality level. Not for socketing, for the most part. Except for some +MF gear (through perfect Topazes) I keep stashed away, I mostly use them for upgrading runes.

And I also tried socketing nice bases for runewords through recipes. It hasn’t ever given me the desired amount of sockets for choice #1, but I learned to make do.

(Done with introduction.)

Now, I’ve been checking some other recipes. And I was wondering… Is there a catch here?

Some of them seem to greatly improve the items you already have. Like, upgrading a normal to an elite or so. Which would make hunting for bases an easier situation, right?

Yet I don’t see anyone around here, or in any guides, suggesting to use recipes to get a “better for sure” version of their finds when they’re not optimal. Am I missing something?

Right now, I’m focused on my Ironstone (Unique War Hammer). While it has the best damage I could find so far (Act 3 NM, lvl 61) on a one-handed weapon, I would like to improve upon it before I go too much further into the game.

So, I saw this recipe: Ral + Sol + Perfect Emerald + Normal weapon = Elite version of it.

That SHOULD boost my Ironstone to an elite version, thus improving its base stats but WITHOUT losing any of its unique benefits. Right? If its base dam improves substantially, the item’s own +% plus my Zealot’s +dam skills should multiply it nicely. Right?

But I’m concerned I will degrade or ruin the item somehow. That something will be lost, or something will be re-rolled into a worse version.

Especially since I added a socket to it (Larzuk), and put an Ort there for more lightning damage (impulsive, I know, but I’m ok with not doing everything meticulously).

I wouldn’t wanna lose that extra 1-50 lightning, especially since my Zealot is mostly physical dam.

Correct me if I’m wrong on the math, please.

Right now, displayed item dam is 41-63. Which means base dam of around 16-24, if I take the +160% it brings out.

If I upgrade with the recipe, I get a Battle Hammer version. With around DOUBLE that base damage. Right?

Or does it change to another unique Battle Hammer, which I think is the Earthshaker? That one looks quite potent and nice, even better…

ALTHOUGH Knockback is honestly an awful “bonus” to have for an exclusively melee build that shines in mobs. I already find it annoying when I deal with monsters that run away, even with Holy Freeze merc and my own cold damage there to slow them down. Can’t imagine if it happened ALL THE TIME…

–

So, if this works, it looks like the very best way to significantly improve damage, without taking apart large chunks of my build. And the runes and gem needed, are not that troublesome to get.

It also means, most importantly… Getting it right now.

NOT needing to hunt and wait a LONG while for a nice drop in a base for a runeword, or an even better rare/unique/set/whatever, etc.

I think Diablo in Normal gave me the Ironstone, or something around that time. So, as you can see I’m not having much luck finding something better.

Oh, and I use the /players8 difficulty. Which really improved my xp and amount of drops, but still…

Thank you everyone.

2

The upgrade from normal to exceptional and then exceptional to elite recipes only work on unique and rare items (each with respective recipes), so you can’t use it to upgrade bases items for RW, unfortunately.

So you can’t go directly from normal to elite, you have to upgrade to exceptional first, but yes, the formula improves the item by upgrading the base item. It doesn’t change the stats of the item, just the base item, so all the multipliers are based on the higher value.
The only potential downside is that you need to make sure you can still use the item, since the stats and lvl required will rise.

I got burned by this by upgrading my Lenymo sash to the exceptional version (demonhide sash) to get more pot slots but the lvl rose above my current level, to 29 iirc, which is higher than a regular demonhide sash (lvl 24).

2 Likes
3

I went and re-read the recipe list. Didn’t notice that. Thanks.

But the recipe WOULD work for my current Ironstone situation, right?

Would it destroy the Ort rune my Ironstone has, and leave the socket empty? Or get rid of both the rune and the socket?

4

Sorry I was editing my post to multi quote since I’m on my phone, yes for ironstone you could upgrade it from a war hammer to a battle hammer. It would have higher str reqs and lvl req but no other downside aside from the cost of the cube recipe ingredients.

Tbh I’m not sure how it works with sockets but I would assume it leaves them alone and only upgrades the base item.

It will only change the base, it will not make an ironstone an earth shaker.

2 Likes
5

Beautiful. Just did it. Gorgeous difference.

From weapon dam 41-63, to 77-127. Total dam, from 586-1001 to 909-1574.

With players 8 difficulty, several normal monsters were requiring 10+ hits to go down. And even when I’m delivering those fast, it was looking kinda weak. With this, I’ll definitely see a difference.

EDIT: Just checking, and it SEEMS slightly slower. Maybe it’s just my imagination.

Thank you. I was afraid I could botch something and ruin the weapon when I don’t have any decent replacements.

4 Likes
6

Both war hammer and battle hammer both have a base speed of [20] so they’re should be no attack speed difference unless you made other changes.

2 Likes
7

Get Tome of D2 app for your phone for all recipes and tons of other info in your pocket!

Alt tab no more!

What, you have dual monitors!? Well good for you!

1 Like
8

It is really nice. Plus hitting windows key doesn’t minimize it just changes focus so you can scroll over to the browser on the other screen. It’s great. Nice app tip though!

9

Alt+tab on a single screen is still WAY comfier, smoother and faster than taking my attention away from the PC to browse in my phone’s way smaller screen. Sounds completely counterproductive. No thanks.

And, if I wanna check those on my phone, I just go to the websites. I’ve kept a tab for each relevant thing (runes, recipes, etc.) open since I started playing D2R. Both in PC and cellphone. No big deal.

10

Sometimes there are differences in base speed between normal/exceptional/elite versions of the same weapon type. A Phase Blade is just an elite version of a Crystal Sword, but it has a way faster base attack speed. But in your case they should be the same like insidious said.

You could eventually upgrade it all the way to an Ironstone Legendary Mallet, but the strength requirement would skyrocket. Your min damage would go up some, but your max damage wouldn’t budge very much. The attack range would increase though.

Anyway, upgrading items is fun. Upgrading Nightsmoke from a Belt to a Mesh Belt for the additional potion slots is one of my go-to items for leveling.

3 Likes
11

Yeah, I figured out not long after, that it was just my imagination indeed.

I did check that recipe, of course. But I’d need way better runes that I’ve ever found yet, for that.

Min damage is always nicer to improve than max, mathematically speaking. I prefer, say, +10 min dam to +15 max. Because it’s a “for sure” thing, in a way that max’s potential isn’t.

I’m only learning to exploit runewords recently. Liking how it lets me decide more, in a way.

Ancient’s Pledge after not having luck socketing shields for Spirit, then Rhyme + Lionheart to keep the great +res around while also enjoying CBF and all the other smaller perks.

I haven’t even checked the higher runes’ recipes yet, as it’s pointless for me to plan that much ahead.

Of course, I never sell or throw away any runes. And whenever I get 4 of one, I transmute 3 into a better one and keep the remaining so there’s always at least 1 of each. Having a full variety of gems available, mostly for those recipes.

I HAVE gone down to 0 of a specific rune, to make the runeword of course. Not enough of a hoarder to forget that’s the priority, lol.

I don’t know if my luck’s been decent, rune-wise. I very rarely get anything from Sol up. My best yet has been a single Fal, and that was a drop. Recipes haven’t taken me beyond making a few Hel, thus far. Never got a Ko.

I’m lvl 61, Flayer Jungle NM right now.

1 Like
12

You’ll find a greater variety of runes in Hell, but even so the drop rates aren’t very high and most of your runes drops will be made up of Sol and below. You just have the “added chance” to get lucky at finding something nifty while grinding away.

Its good to have spares, and I used to do what you are doing, and keep every rune. When you get to farming hell regularly, you’ll start to not pick up most rune drops because of the clutter.

2 Likes
13

It’d increase his average damage by 9 per strike (without ED% modifiers), and the Legendary Mallet is the highest single handed damage in the entire game. Its biggest draw back is the insanely slow attack speed, so I wouldn’t use the resources to upgrade it since Ironstone doesn’t have any IAS, but the LM is no joke.

2 Likes
14

Yeah LM is great and all, just mean to say going from Battle Hammer → Legendary Mallet is a much smaller damage upgrade than going from War Hammer → Battle Hammer. Otherwise they all have the same attack speed, and LM also has the benefit of a larger attack range which is cool.

I miss my 1.09 Schaefer’s Hammer Zeal pally.

2 Likes
15

I think a +9 in max dam was translating to around +70 in total after all current mods. Base weapon dam gets something like a x8, all things given.

Doesn’t sound like it’s worth the effort really, especially since my +dam mods are unlikely to become much higher. I’m already maxed out at Fanaticism and Sacrifice. From my calculations, maxing out Zeal (only lvl 8), would only get me an extra +72%. That wouldn’t boost that +9, or even total dam, much higher.

And it’s not like those recipe’s runes are easy to come by. I’d be ok with having one of the biggest dam one-handed weapons already, as I assume the unique Battle Hammer is.

I’m already dealing with such a slow speed as “normal,” as the item’s base. But, thanks to my +30% IAS from gear + Fanaticism and Zeal, I’m still hitting at a good pace. I’d love to go even faster, and I figure I’ll do that by taking out the Ort from my Ironstone and socketing a Shael when I get one again.

I got you. As I said above, it barely sounds worth the effort damage-wise.

Although increased range is nice. How big of an impact does that have, really?

Melee can be frustrating, when fast-moving monsters that love running away keep sliding out of your reach. I’m up to the point where even slow-moving targets, like a Holy Frozen Vampire, seems able to outrun me (and I have +50% run). It’s mostly because, everytime I take a swing and I miss, it allows the critter to keep floating away while I’m stuck in place. Thus increasing its distance again.

16

Didn’t see this mentioned yet, but level requirement when you up items is plus 5 to base going to exceptional and plus 7 going to elite.

17

You and me both!

1.09 was amazing, and Schaefer’s Hammer was such a cool weapon.

1 Like
18

Upping items have it’s place in D2 :slight_smile: … Some items more popular than others for upping. Like everyone already said - you are upgrading “base” (in case of weapon - base damage, in case of armor - base defense) it cost clvl increase (+5 for exceptional, +7 for elite) and str/dextr requirements (they will match corresponding version)
For Pala I seen most commonly HOZ been upped for smiting and GA for better defense (from templar coat to hell forge). Vipermagi occasionally upped by casters (imo yeah worth it before you got COH)

19

Honestly, I never run into the issue of not having the required lvl for items. In this case, my Ironstone is lvl 32 right now. Easy.

I know some items have serious lvl requirements, but I’m clearly not lucky enough to get those yet :sob:

I just never paid attention to that possibility before. I’m quite the newbie to many aspects of the game, sheer experiencie aside.

I think in the back of my head, all those were recipes that rerolled the item’s mods only. And I didn’t wanna lose the actual mods themselves. Nor risk wasting runes and perfect gems on rerolling mods, as that’s essentially the same as gambling. But gambling is far more accessible, as I only need enough cash and anyone can quickly make 100+ k.

Right now, I see no reason to try upgrading any other items. My circlet and plated belt would provide virtually no benefits, and those are the only upgradeable ones in the rare/unique category aside from my weapon.

1 Like