Improvements for necromancer

Necromancer
7

I fully agree with taking poison damage off shrunken heads, even when I run my Pdagger I use a Bone shield as the Heads just don’t cut if for melee. Replace it with + to resist(I don’t care if that’s OP.)

I don’t think your proposed changes to the golems will allow a ‘golem master’ to be viable. A golem master needs to have a good solid set of damage dealers once you drop the 80 pts into it. With your proposed changes they will still be good tanks but incapable of doing damage. Fire would do the best damage but it’s still nothing you can make work. If you want golems to be good they need a massive damage bonus from Mastery as well as boosting their base damage so the synergies become useful.

Teeth - shotgunning, glad this is becoming more popular. PvP already has a way to make shotgunning skills not work on other players. If you make it Shotgun, you can remove all the bonus damage they just put in and make PvP not a problem.

Spirit - is fine as it is, with a high casting rate you have a ton of these slow moving dudes flying around. What they need is a cap on the mana cost.

Wall/Prison just need to be un-summonable. I have sat around waiting for them to die too many times.

PDagger needs a cap on the duration to 5 seconds. This upps it’s dps to an acceptable level (read equal to nova) and when you combine it with items like Blackbogs you will get the longer duration that is needed for the boss fights. i.e. lvl 20/20/20 PDagger would have @5K damage over 5 seconds or 1000/second (currently at @500dps). If you added blackbog’s 488 over 10 sec you would end up with 1048 dps for 15 seconds turning the 5K damage into 15K damage just because you understand poison mechanics.

PExplosion needs a radius gain as you level - agree’d, but that’s all.

Nova is perfect as it is, it’s a screen killer.

I would not touch curses. Remember monsters use curses as well as we do. The only meaningful change weaken has in 2.4 is to make it harder on physical damage players while running chaos. We actually need a few curses that are worthless so the monsters can use those.

Adding this in - mages: they currently gain 9 damage every 2 levels. They can be changed to add 9 damage every level starting at lvl 21 and beyond. This gives them a damage increase they need at higher levels if you invest in them. With just 1 pt they will just be extra bodies around.

8

I wasn’t clear enough, gonna correct that. I meant that 20th level of Golem Mastery should allow to summon up to 3 golems, but these might be of the same type. So it should be possible to have Golem Mastery lv20 and say three Iron Golems lv20, for 40 not 80 skill points; as I mentioned in “All golems” they should have get significant damage increase, because now they can be very good tanks, but they suck as offensive units, as you rightly pointed.

Well, not really - they are so slow they are outrunned even by some monsters, and if I have a direct line of sight to the target Bone Spear is a more reliable choice. So I proposed improvements which should help Bone Spirit to fill a tactical niche.

They aren’t?? o.O oh my, ofc they should, totally agree with that.

Well I won’t argue about exact numbers, I’d like only to point that allowing the skill to work with blade/missile weapon types will be beneficial for builds diversity.

I disagree. With additional radius per level the skill will finally become usable, but mechanically it’d be just a poor version of Corpse Explosion. Poisonmancer has his Poison Nova as AoE skill, and doesn’t need Poison Explosion for anything other than synergy. By replacing the skill with something that affects all bone spells, as proposed, it’d make thing more interesting - Bone Spear/Bone Spirit/Teeth with X-Y extra poison damage not only will have their total damage greater, but that also will help with monsters’ life regeneration, and to some degree against magic immunes.

Hmm doesn’t it require to be “perfect as it is” to obtain Death’s Web wand, Trang-Oul gloves and other rare stuff? I’d like to make it more viable even without very high gear investment, in self found games.

Well, the only worthless curses are for now Confusion and Weaken, and I opted to remove both of them. All the others have their uses. Lower Resist however is way too behind Conviction, so that’s why I think it should be buffed to comparable levels; yeah, Oblivion Knights might become a bit more dangerous, but I’m sure we can live with that.

Yes, I forgot to mention mages, partially because I had no idea how to improve them. However, now I figured out something, gonna update my 1st post here.

EDIT:
After discussion with @Skulm I introduce a replacement for mages - Skeletal Archers. While mages using Blizzards, Meteors, Chain Lightnings and Poison Novas would definitely cause total mayhem implementing that might be very hard, while archers should be much easier to add, and they present greater possibility to make them deal more damage.

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Nice suggestions. 202020

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Got an idea for automod for shrunken heads - “+X life and mana on kill”.

1 Like
11

totally agree with the changes on summons skills
i hope see it on ladder soon

12

i thik in a way to make mage skeletos more usefull without have to do anything so complicated just make them cast randon elemental damage skill determinated randonly when is spawned i mean instead of the cast of regular actual elemental missile example meteor , blizzard , poison javalin , lighting i mean not a regular and simply elemental missil attack

13

Sorry, but I disagree with 99% of it … Summoners are just fine the way they are…

They are meant to summon and control skeletons. Golems, mages, revives are all just support for your skeletons. None of them , except skeletons were meant to be stand alone.

After 20+ years of play, I can say that they are still just fine the way they are … no need to enhance any further.

Now you can defuff some classes, hammerdin …

remove some stupid overpowered and unbalancing crap: enigma, mosaic

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Fine with worthless Skeleton Mages? With no gain in investment in Revive? With golems whose have trouble to hit a Fallen in A1? Okay…

How about poison skill, especially bugged Poison Nova, utterly garbage Poison Explosion and practically useless Poison Dagger?

How about NOT spoil fun for other classes like Hammerdin, but instead improve curses, namely Amplify Damage, to lower magic resistance of enemies? So Hammerdin will have their Concentration aura, and Necromancer will have Amp Dmg? This will make Magic Sunder actually useful btw.

So my friend there is much to improve for this class.

15

they are back-up, additional, support damage … your skels are your primary damage dealers. Mages are fin.

No gain? LOL. Terrific gain. You have a temporary extra piece of cannon fodder at your disposal with the ability to summon more. As you invest more, you can revive more, wow. Revive is just fine.

How about that poison skill … one of many skills in this game never properly addressed or adjusted in 20 years. However, we are talking Summoner, NOT poison necro. Poison Nova is a great additional damage skill to add damages to your enemies in conjunction with your skels.

I have no use for sunder and do not use them. The only one that could help a summoner would be the one regarding physical damages.

Amp is a great skill and does enough damage as it is, doesn’t need buffed. Take it from years of experience.

Amp to lower res??? Are you daft??? You must obviously not pla7y a summoner much at all. You are aware that there is a skill called “Lower Res”???

I ain’t your friend and do NOT want to be …

There is actually very little to improve in this class. Is an easy and powerful build as is!

16

Its almost impossible to expect such a radical changes, lets be realistic. As for mages, they need at least 2 times higher damage and 3 times higher life. lvl 41 skeleton has 7400 hp but mages have only 1650.

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Be nice if they did give some love to necros for once, lol …

maybe add an icon in-between summon skeld and summon mages and make summon archer skels. Make them random: cold/fire/light … similar to choices for bowazon or act 1 merc.

Now that would be a nice necro upgrade.

:Edit:

and to be nice to poison necros as well [ I personally do not play poison necros, but, what the hay] … on bottom right of PnB tree, add another icon … Poison Mastery [sorta like sorceress masteries?]

… and, maybe, combine Golem Mastery & Skeleton Mastery into one skill? Summon Mastery?

… just a few thoughts …

Is same as with ranged and melee characters …

Melee needs more as they are “in-your-face” combat, whereas ranged is backline support and somewhat out of the danger zone. Makes sense.

Let’s break this down, shall we???

Skeleton mages were never meant to be high-end combat tools, at best, they are back-line support. Very helpful yet somewhat weak. It’s a balance because they are in the rear in the “safe zone”.

There is gain in revive. You get more of them!!! And I think the Revive skill is already powerful enough. Mine is level 25, with 1 skill point invested. Life +430%, Damage +460%, duration 180 seconds [that’s 3 minutes], and I can have 25 of them at once, along with my 16 skels that are level 44 [that’s 41 summons, plus golem, plus merc, plus you! That’s not even including the 10 mages you could summon if you wanted to … that’s 54 damned soldiers on one screen!! If you are having a problem playing with that kinda force, you really need to play another character!!!]. That kind of army, amplify damage, and corpse explosion!!! You really need to learn how to play! Damn man, what more do you want? That’s a strong azzed army.

As far as golems go, they are very weak in the beginning. They get a little stronger, but they are ,meant as a meat-shield with aura support while in the thick of it. My clay golem is level 38 [14 base points] … he has over 26k life! and slows enemies by 71%! Now throw in decrepify @ level 23 with enemy damage -50%, attack speed -50%, run/walk speed -50% … that slows the enemy by 121%!

Amplify Damage @ level 23 … wow! … covers half of Baal’s throne room!!! Causes damage taken to be +100%!! & Lasts 74 seconds [that’s 1 minute and 14 seconds]!!! Now, add it up … base skel damage of 754-758 [we’ll say for arguments sake: 750] … add in skel mastery of +92 damage [we’ll say +100 for arguments sake] … amplify damage @ level 23 adds +100% damage … so that adds up to a minimum of what? … 1.7k damage per hit, per skel??? … and you have 16 of them??? Seriously!!!

A fire golem [mine is level 30] @ level 30 has 7k life, 1075 def, 1125 AR &&& absorbs 93% fire damage, fire damage of 881-1076, holy fire of 91-222 [just for standing there lol].
Seriously, golems are just fine. Golem Mastery at level 29 gives you: +580% life, +725 AR, & +36% run/walk speed!!!

We haven’t even discussed Summon Resists for your summons yet!!! At level 44, they have a Resist ALL of 72%!!! I mean, seriously! Do you not even use your necro skills or even look at them, or even make use of them and the combination of them???

I tell you, you really need to be aware of how good a summon necro really is … and how to play him right! …

He can be quite formidable just the way he is!

OBVIOUSLY you are missing a letter in your forum name … an “A” … should be “MasterBLAB”, because that’s all you are doing is blabbing … you obviously don’t have a clue as to playing a Necro-Summoner. Judging from your post, you have very little experience.

18

Dude even fallen can have up to 2k hp, 1650 is nothing. They arent supposed to tank but at least to survive. I can spend 20 point in mages, they still will be worthless because difference between lvl 21 (1+20 from gear) and lvl 40 mage is ~600 hp. They should have 3/4 of skeleton warrior’s hp. They have less defence and wouldnt be so tanky, but at least you wont need to rise new ones every two minutes. I dont even mention their damage, which is the same on lvl 1 and lvl 40. I dont see reasons why they shouldn’t be buffed.

1 Like
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NOTHING survives at low levels. As you rise in levels and add points they get stronger., My clay golem never ever dies … I had an iron golem I made for fun … after 100+ games I decided to make a fire golem, he never died … evidently you are doing something wrong or just need something to complain about.

Now act 1 fallen, well either you or your merc should be able to handle them …

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Yes, its all these generations of necro players who tell that mages is garbage, they are noobs, and you are the only one who plays right way lmao. Clay golem is an one point wonder and rarely dies even on lvl 1, so your argument denies itself.

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As someone who uses Mages on my summoner regularly, there is nothing wrong with their life. They don’t tank, they either get in the way or hide in the back. If they get in the way, you want them to die, if they hide in the back, they don’t get hit. No issue either way, I don’t understand why people who say they need to have more life on their mages. Yes you occasionally re-summon one, I do that on skellies too but who cares.

Mages do not do damage that is exciting, yes that’s true but I still use them because IMO/from my experience they do better damage than putting those 20 pts anywhere else. Would I like to see them do more damage, who wouldn’t? They still do more damage than putting that same 20 pts into bone spear.

what situations are you in where the mages just crumble? tellying into packs of things?

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Well you can put these 19 points into Golem mastery and make Beast or Pride IG. Risky investment but if you dont die, it justifies itself. Bone Prison and Bone Wall as synergy for BA is also more preferrable for me, because I play careless and often telestomp in the wrong packs. But its the matter of preference. I still think that mages should get health buff as addition to huge damage buff. If your minion at level 40 has less health than weakest monster in the game, it means that something is wrong.

23

The problems with Skeleton Mages are:

  • very low life; that would not be so bad alone, but with the below…
  • very low damage output
  • poor AI, most of the time they wander around, and even when they start to attack they cast not so often. This also is extremely bad with telestomp, as 1st they do is backing off.
  • bad cooperation with other necromancer skills; only Lower Resist helps a bit, but a summoner build rather wants to use Amplify Damage for skeleton warriors, revives and mercenary.

makes them bad skill. Changing them to archers which deal physical damage, with a conversion to elements, with a better AI would help immensely, as their damage and attack speed could be affected by ex. auras. Sure, with 20 points investment + all skills bonuses Skeleton Mages start to do something, but you can have better result by putting that 20 points into Corpse Explosion for greater range.

Golems, while they can be made decent tanks or utility units(slow, aggro attraction, aura provider), completely fail as damage dealers - this is a window for improvement for them.

Revives, while really good, do not encourage to invest more than one point + all skills. Sure, theoretically you can have 40+ revives, but they in such number are just wandering around, as only around ~12-15 are capable of fighting in melee. True, there is a telestomp, but it is not available immediately. So, some encouragement is needed.

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I usually have a bone necro each ladder and i use bone spirit plus bone prison to cheese uber diablo for anni. Off screen him ez. You could do the same with bone spear but its safer to name lock with spirit.

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I have a list of skill synergy suggestion here. I added my thought about skill changes that go with those synergies.

For summoning skills I think
Cold mages should be removed be they can explode bodies
Golem skill should increase their base damage not off weapon bonus
Golem attack speed should be quicker
Revives instead of a time limit should have drain % max life effect instead and points into revive reduces this drain life effect to a minimum value. This way life tap is basically a synergy because it will make your revives live longer.

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I’d rather them change mages to archers (as they already have the creature model/skill for them). I use mages currently on my summoner but they really only start to do damage with infinity and its fairly low damage even then. The reason i use them is because they look neat and it’s nice to have a large looking army, i think of it as a substitute to bone armor. Unfortunately there is several issues with mages beyond cold mages slowing down clear speed. The poison mages damage doesnt increase with more than one, so it’s never effective to have more than one in your army. Their A.I. is horrible, so much so that if you dont have enigma, they actually slow down your clear speed by getting in the way of your melee skeletons. They tend to be very glassy with very low damage output as well.

With the change of mage to archer, they’d have both a physical and magical component to them and their A.I. is slower moving with larger range that would tend to keep them more centralized around the necro rather than chasing down enemies like mages. I’d be all for toning down regular skeletons damage in exchange for boosting up archers (mages), encouraging players to invest in both.