Sunder charms just still don’t feel right and I would like whole immunity system to get reworked again. Also I’m not a fan of gameplay when best way to beat hell is to skip most of mobs instead of fighting them and Sunder Charms didn’t address it at all. Which option would you prefer?
- Make them important again as they were intended to.
As I see it they don’t matter long ago since Hammerdins and Lightning Infinity builds started to dominate the game. There would be a bunch of work to do and design would have to go back to force every character to have at least 2 damage types. All ways to break immunity like Infinity, Lower Res etc would need to stop working. Also immunities on mobs would need rebalance, more Magic immunes added, less Fire etc. Fire druid would probably stop working again so class balance is needed too like giving more physical dmg to his fire skills. That would definitely be interesting, S tier builds would totally change and they are far too OP for now if they can clear /p8 solo.
- Just remove them.
That would make game more modernised and Hell difficulty easier so along with it builds would probably need to be nerfed.
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Just remove sh11ty synergies, update base dmg for melee and set energy as ed for ele and fcr skills.
Fixed
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Immunities serve as “punishment” for dedicating to one specific type of damage…
Always have a backup plan… Even if it is running.
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Sunder charms kill hybrid builds and the social aspect of searching synergies with other classes and/or friends.
For example, why can’t the sunder charm :
- Remove -20% damage to the Damage Type in order to break this Damage Type.
(So basically -20% from the total damage before resistances are applied). The current charms are not punishing enough compared to the gain.
(-20% -30% to total damage — -70 -90% to character resistances)
- Furthermore, 2 variable stats are more interesting than 1 variable stats, because some may favor one or the other. So we don’t always throw away the weaker one (like Gheed for example where some prefer mf, merchant discount or gold farm)
That would give more weight to hybrid build again while keeping the concept of breaking an immunity. Diversity is good if the new option does not makes the previous one obsolete.
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Yeah they really need to bring back hybrid builds. Remove sunders, and make all elemental immunities unbreakable. If people want to go mono elemental, then they need to be limited to the zones they can farm, or skip packs.
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Lets face the facts, Sunders were an “easy(ish)” button for these D3 devs. In order to rework Immunities fully, or go with a different system entirely, they would have had to really dedicate a ton of resources to not just work that system, but address every aspect of damage and skills as well.
If this were just a single player game, it would be simpler, but there are not alot of dual damage builds that scale well up to Players 8. Even alot of single damage builds still can struggle until elite end game gear and level.
Its a ton more work than these devs will do. That is why there is a 0.0000 chance of drastic changes like this, ever happening.
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Just use Mosaic. Immunities become irrelevant.
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Ye that would be a lot of work and seeing how they handle Assasin with Mosaic probably no hopes there.
In one hand I could think Sunders are fine, they don’t change original playthrough and help some builds but then I remember that immunities are a problem how they are originally if Hammerdin ignores them and others have trouble so issue still there. I’m mostly ssf so Sunders don’t really help me that much and they need additional -res gear to work. My Cold Sorc was the first to benefit from Sunder Charm but it was already my best character.
If immunities would be done right, no way to break them so every character actually needs 2 damage types I’m interested how the game would change.
On the other hand I think immunities make it more difficult for solo play (so again for me mostly) cuz if I’d have someone with different dmg type I can just stay with single element and we can nuke the game easily. That’s why I think removing them entirely or just keep on elites is worth to consider too.
Solution to immunes is EZ, just replace this terriBAD and sh11ty shared drop by personal drop, so finally players would play together as intended and botters become less usefull.
Sunders are absolutely no needed if personal drop would be implemented correctly.
Just why I think SP should stay with 1.09 for LoD and 1.06 for CL officialy.
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Unfortunately, Sunder charms killed hybrid builds. Now immunities punish builds specializing in a single element only until Sunder charm is found (or worse, traded).
The progress in Diablo 2 is pretty garbage imho. You have to make at least 3 chars to get anywhere. First is usually sorc. Second is mf barb. Third is optimized build with gear found from the previous 2. I consider that broken. Brevik’s idea for the game was to make there be an array of choices of builds and skills that are equally viable. It used to be that way back in ye olden days.
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i’d be sooo happy if they went and nerfed some things. deleted a few items, tweaked some TZ. but alas, they have been using the “one and done” method for a long time now. EVEN when there was testing. they took everyones complaints in the complete wrong direction.
everyone cried “hammer pally too strong” so they gave us sunder. like. what a TERRIBLE idea instead of just nerfing hammers or how concentrates shouldn’t actually add dmg… like ffs. these devs… lol. worst thing for d2.
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LOL, I really dont think thats why we got Sunders, but feel free to enlighten me on that…
More like everyone cried “Immunities are too strong” and thus, Sunder was the compromise between removing them, and giving more options to defeat them.
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The immunities could be left for multi, may add a bit of fun to the game. For single player - whoever thought of adding them I hope gets fired by Microsoft with a forever ban to work on anything close to software. Only a very incapacitated person would do something like this and its evident he/she did not even spent a few minutes of Hell play to understand how of an idiotic decision this is.
Someone else necro’d this thread so I might add well throw my 2 cents in.
The devs initially rolled out TZ and tested it on PTR.
Then they said that based on feedback they got it was an advantage to Hammerdin more than other classes, so they were looking into addressing that feedback.
Then we got Sunders and minimal/no testing before they went live.
Now the devs may have seen that as killing multiple birds with one stone, and not publicly announced everything in play, but the sequence of events as I remember it based on what the devs told us leaves me to form the same conclusion that BadHabbits did, FWIW.
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@Kaelos
The problem has always been the resistance table, while those immune to lightning always had a maximum of 100 immunity, those immune to fire and cold have mobs with 160+ resistance to the element, making infinity useless for these elements until the arrival of the sunders.
Infinity people have to understand that it takes 17 resistance from immune mobs (85 / 5), in other words, any mob with 120+ Infinity does not work alone.
Infinity takes the blame for the resistance table. You are right, we need to rebalance the resistance table.
To be honest. Now we all see how tragic was patch 1.10.
I have 2 suggestions if we had to remove charms:
- Apply -res as 100% of efficiency not 20% when fighting with immunities, cap monster resistances at 100% and make more budget -res items.
- Reduce number of synergies, so a single skill will have max 2 synergies. There will be enough points for hybrid builds.
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u mean heavily powercreep the game? no thank you.
remove immunities, make monsters highly resistant with varying degrees of res, dr/mdr, flat absorb, and % absorb depending on how tanky you want that monster to be to that element. make the floor for -res for monsters 0 instead of -100. reduce the amount of available -res across the board dramatically. all -res sources are now passive, so immunity breaking is completely out of the window. now only unique monsters and uber monsters can have immunities, but youre going to have a hard time killing monsters as a single element unless you go hard into damage (which wont help much against high res, high % sorb, but you do more damage to everything else and spend 5-10x+ as long killing monsters resistant to your element) or go hard into -res to do more damage to the monsters resistant to your element and having a viable pure spec that doesnt kill everything else as fast as you would if you were building pure damage.
for the hammerdin/bone necro issue, just make both of them do physical damage or gut hammerdin damage significantly and make bone skills do hybrid physical/magic damage.
Where did I say anything about powercreeping?
I think there’s one small problem with high resist on mobs too. For example you’re nuking the game with Fire Sorc then enter Act 4 and suddenly damage feels weak. Game doesn’t tell you why and there’s no way in game to check mobs resistance. Some indicator should be added like with immunities.
Besides that I like the idea of immunities only on elites too.
Even if immunities get rebalance it still punishes solo players over multiplayer.