I'm sick of Ribcracker. (Regarding SS Druid 2.4)

I’m sick of Ribcracker. (Regarding SS Druid 2.4)

To the Devs:
I get it. I agree with the BLUE POST, and believe you should stick to your guns with this change. I hope you buff the Wolf without reverting to old IAS calculations in 2.4.

To the players:
I am a loyal Wuf player, and play Diablo2 solely to play Wuf. (Truth be told, I reach for SORC first just to farm gear for my Wuf, but who doesn’t?)

My reason for agreeing with this change is this:

The Devs have already declared that they don’t intend for the SS Druid to become less viable, and intend for greater build diversity - which I believe is important for the Druid’s “Do-It-All” class identity. I think that all Druid players, like myself, must all stubbornly play this OBJECTIVELY sub-optimal class to prove some kind of point (like a statement on style? The anti-meta? To stick it to the man? I’m not really sure, but I know that I feel pride in not conforming, you know? I’m looking at you, PALADIN players)

Let me get down to the mechanics, and why the backend/bugged calculations on Live servers are actually detrimental to the SS Druid, and why RIBCRACKER being one of the only viable weapons on the Fury druid is actually a curse, and not a blessing.

  1. RIBCRACKER VIABILITY is a limiting consequence of the old Wuf mechanics, and not due to any mechanical exploitation, or discovery, or exploration. I’ll explain:

First, when you accept that BLOCKING (ie. using shields) is not viable in Wuf Form because:

(a) Wuf Form block animation is too long, and
(b) FURY is an interruptible ability, and can be interrupted by your own block animation,

Then you’ll realize that Wufs will actually suffer from BLOCKING damage. (Keep this in mind as I’ll circle back to how this affects Dexterity and Itemization later on.) This counterintuitive mechanic is actually GREAT, because attacking to stay alive is thrilling, and is a creative use of game mechanics, so I’m not rallying for faster block animations or anything. But there are problems that arise from this:

You’ll naturally conclude that Wufs should wield 2H weapons rather than ONE 1H weapon, because 2H weapons generally have higher stats, and since Druids can’t dual wield, they’d be leaving a whole item slot empty if they choose to wield a 1H weapon.

Now you’re staring down a short list of viable weapons that Wufs can choose from: 2H weapons. Then add to that fact that you get NO benefits from IAS on any other piece of gear thats not your weapon, (which is the mechanic that the Devs are trying to change in the PTR), and that short list of viable Wuf weapons gets even shorter. You’ll eventually end up only looking at THRESHER base weapons, including your Runewords, meaning that Wufs will only get to choose Polearm compatible Runewords, and if that Runeword just happens to have only like 20% IAS (ie, Crescent Moon), then, too bad. No other combination of gear will ever make a slow weapon viable, because IAS on anything else is useless.

And Unique weapons? If it’s not a Thresher base weapon, then it MUST have inherently high IAS on the weapon, ala, Windhammer (60% IAS), or RIBCRACKER (50% IAS). Even then, with either weapon, you HAVE to socket it with IAS, as in, Shael or Ruby Jewel of Fervor. That’s not really a choice, and don’t try to convince yourself that spending a precious Ruby Jewel on a weapon that no other class will use, to make a suboptimal class slightly less suboptimal, is actually a good idea.

So why do Druids always pick Ribcracker over Windhammer you ask?

FHR.
Wufs need 85 FHR to live, since we cannot block, and since Fury is an interruptible spell, you can NEVER stop attacking. Full gas, no brake. Since Ribcracker gives a whopping 50 FHR, you only need +35 FHR from your other gear/charms. Crushing Blow is important, obviously, but Windhammer has that too. What Windhammer doesn’t have is FHR, which is a boring stat to look for in a WEAPON. This is why Wufs play with GFace or Jalals for their precious 30 FHR that they need to live, and there goes your choice of Helms.

What about Tombreaver, you ask? In order for Tombreaver to be viable, it needs to have 3 sockets. And it’s no surprise what you must socket it with (it’s IAS.) And guess what, a 3os Tombreaver is one of the rarest items in the game, so it’s not really worth talking about, unless it completely breaks Wuf, which it doesn’t.

Now that we have the Weapon and helm choice narrowed down for the Wuf, let’s see what we can use:

Gloves: Laying of Hands (LoH)
Wuf players and even the guides will all agree that LoH is a solid choice for the Wuf, but it’s really annoying, considering that LoH has a +20% IAS stat that is completely useless, exclusively to the Wuf build. As in, an otherwise popular item that every other class across the board can fully utlize, the underpowered Wuf will only sub-optimally benefit. That’s plain unjust.

Which means that Dracul’s Grasp is really the only optimal choice for the Wuf, since none of its stats are wasted. And in my opinion, the only viable choice, since LifeLeech is almost mandatory, considering Block is not an option.

Speaking of sub-optimal gear, let’s talk about Highlord’s Wrath, Dexterity, and Angelics, and how they’re all related:

  1. Highlord’s Wrath for Wuf is viable, but under-utilized, considering that it gives +20% IAS to every other class BUT the SS Druid. This is frustrating, just like the +20% IAS on LoH exclusively excluding the SS Druid.

  2. Since BLOCKING is not an option for the Wuf, DEXTERITY becomes a suboptimal stat to increase, since you lose the Chance to Block synergy from Dex. And yet, you still need Attack Rating! There is no Wuf viable weapon with “Ignore Target’s Armor,” which is why Demon Limb (for Enchant AR) is often found in a Wuf Druid’s inventory. (By the way, having to switch around CTA and Demon Limb on your off hand gets old very fast.)

  3. So to supplement your lack of AR, a Wuf usually defaults to running Angelics Ammy and Ring. That is, if you don’t want to constantly switch around CTA for Demon Limb on your switch.

And the other ring slot? Raven Frost. Duh. No choice.
I won’t complain too much about this one though, since all other physical damage classes suffer the same problem, and is not a uniquely Druid issue.

Boots? Gore Rider. What else?
Similar to Raven Frost, Gore Rider taking away from item diversity in physical damage builds is not a unique problem to Druids, so I won’t complain too much about it here.

Oh and Chest piece? I guess you have a lot of choice here since ENIGMA (Teleport) is NOT USABLE in Wuf form. This is a blessing and a curse. This is a blessing in that Wufs aren’t forced to use Enigma, thus opening up a lot of other options. But let’s be honest, it’s a pretty awful thing to be the only build left out of Teleport when literally every other class can do it. What the F. Let us Leap, or something. Man, you have to run everywhere, but the Wuf can’t even run faster on 4 limbs than on 2.

All in all, I would say that I am okay with the Dev’s fixing the backend IAS calculation of SS Druid in 2.4, so long as they plan to tune-up the frontend of it simultaneously. In the community manager’s Blue Post, they acknowledge the same problems with the class as I have just outlined above, but didn’t know how to tune the IAS value of the Werewolf skill. I don’t care if it has to be +1000%. Just scale it up to match what it was before, but don’t hide what the calculation is. Hiding mechanics is never necessary.

I say just JACK UP the +IAS on the Werewolf ability, and let us SS Druids have at least one competitive season in the sun. I think we all deserve it.

Basically, what I want is to be able to hit as fast as 2.3 SS Druids, while using different weapons other than an upped Ribcracker. I’m sick of it and it’s not cool. Let me THWUMP things with an EARTHSHIFTER, and be just as effective.

Please, let’s not revert back to Ribcracker.

7 Likes

Just because ribcracker is the optimal weapon, doesn’t mean it’s the only weapon that works well.

Windhammer, Death, Cranium Basher, Tomb Reaver, IK maul, Hone Sundan, BotD. These all work well with fury druid, even if they aren’t as good as ribcracker.

The reason why ribcracker is so wildly popular is because its cheap, because fury druid is pretty much the only class that uses it effectively. To me it seems nice that druid actually has something that they are uniquely good at using. I love ribcracker.

The current changes don’t really make other weapons more effective/viable, it just makes all the best weapons much worse, and now everything is mediocre at best.

The current changes make IAS completely useless on werewolf, because the implicit IAS provided by the skill itself pretty much maxes you out for effective IAS, and no amount of additional IAS will make you attack any faster.

Since attack speed no longer matters, then the only thing that matters is damage, balancing IAS/damage/mods doesn’t matter at all, which means fury druid just becomes a much worse version of every other melee build that just goes for highest damage possible, and the only items that will matter are things like grief/ebotd/last wish just like every other melee build. How fun. How diverse.

None of this really matters though, because the devs have already confirmed that they are going to be changing it, and we’ll just have to wait and see for what changes they end up making and test it out.

3 Likes

if you would know your so beloved class, you would know that ribcracker is a good early cheap choice but not even close to be the best choice. Me for instance liked that this weapon was usable for ww druid because which purpose does it else had? if druids would not use it, it is another useless staff. druids before 2.4 had a variety of weapons to choose from, and with smart tuning they could even make more viable without killing the whole class, i dont understand why people like you without real knowledge of the game even try to defend the devs, you only accomplish that the ss druid will be even less played than before.

1 Like

Ribcracker being a cheaper, more superior choice to other 2H weapons means that you basically find your BIS weapon in late NORMAL and stick with it forever. It’s like getting married to your middle school girlfriend because she was the best there ever was and ever will be. Hahahahahaha. But come on, that’s actually sad.

Earthshifter is a way cooler weapon, and was clearly intended for a hybrid Wuf class, right? Is there really a good reason that a Ribcracker should be better than Earthshifter for a Hybrid Wuf? Earthshifter is cheap as hell by the way. Cheaper than a Ribcracker. Whether a weapon is cheap or not stems from whether it’s useful, and WHO it’s useful for. If an Earthshifter became Best-In-Slot for some Druids in future patches, it’d only be viable for a certain spec of Hybrid Druids, and no other spec, therefore, it’ll still be cheap. This is just like DTorches being cheaper than PTorches, so long as Druids are less popular to play.

Because of the existence of Grief and Spirit Runeword, (and the Wuf’s Druid preference not to block,) 2H damage weapons are uniquely viable to the Wuf class. The PROBLEM is that Ribcracker is the best one out of all of them.

I’ve bought a PERFECT Windhammer for a Pul rune before, which cost me the same as a non-perfect Ribcracker. Windhammer was way more fun to use, but I had to find 50FHR from my other gear (you need charms to make up for it), and even then, and when you’re min/maxing, you know in the back of your head that Ribcracker is superior to Windhammer. Imagine someone is still thinking about their girlfriend back in middle school while trying to date other people in college. That is what it’s like. That is Ribcracker.

Ribcracker being a better option than Cranium Basher, IK Maul, Hone Sundan, and BotD is a curse, man. For instance, Earthshifter was a weapon I was trying to make work on my Hybruid Fury Wuf, but it just swings too damn slow, and the +10% IAS on the weapon is all you’ve got to work with. The fact that it’s a Thunder Maul, and has longer base swing frames doesn’t help either, obviously.

The point of balance that I want SS Druids to be in, is for a player to be able to look for IAS on their other gear to make up for what their weapon lacks, in order to bring down the frames-cost-per-attack, to be on par with Ribcracker pre 2.4.

For example, consider how fast a Wuf druid can attack with Ribcracker (50%+20% from Shael) in 2.3, and make it the benchmark standard for Wuf attack speed / frames cost per attack.

In 2.4, I want a Wuf druid to be able to pick up an Earthshifter (10% IAS), and think, “Hmmm, if I drop my Drac’s for a LoH/Lava Gout/ IK gloves set Bonus, and drop my Jalal’s for a Andy’s, AND if I drop my Angelic’s for a Highlord’s/Catseye, on top of Shael’ing my Earthshifter, I could reach the same attack frames as Ribcracker.”

And I know, Crushing Blow will always be a thing, and will always make IAS a better choice than ED for any Melee class, but Ribcracker makes it so that Druids don’t even get a chance to dip into other (cooler) Chance on Hit weapons that also synergize with a high IAS. Druids only get Crushing Blow? Why should that be the case?

Obviously, mechanically speaking, the devs didn’t accomplish this goal in 2.4 PTR, and I hope they didn’t all dust their hands and drive home, leaving the Wuf in its PTR state. That’s so unimaginable, that I can’t reasonably react the same as most other people.

I think there are creative solutions around this, without reverting back to what it was before, like making the Werewolf form reduce the base attack swing time from the Human form Druid by a flat rate, and then indicate on the Ability tooltip what that actual number is, so that newer players get an understanding that “Wuf form attacks faster than Human form,” which is intuitive, and less obtuse than having to discover as a new player that +IAS on everything else but your weapon was actually not helping you all this time.

Someone please tell me that Maria wasn’t the one that got away.
People can still find love after school, right?
Just take Ribcracker away from me.
We all need you move on.

Do you like this?

Lo+Ko
+250-350% Enhanced Damage
Adds 309-650 Damage
+100% Damage To Undead
+100% Damage To Demons
50% Chance Of Crushing Blow
75% Increased Attack Speed
50% Faster Hit Recovery
+100% Enhanced Defense
+100 Defense
+15 To Dexterity

2.0 ribs?

Cmon, wolfdruid problems are not limited to weapon

I think the devs need to run a Shapeshifter Druid through Hell difficulty. One run through and do it with the gear they are thinking of doing it with. Obvious to me that they have never actually done that.
The OP is correct that you need to have a lot of specific gear to run a shapeshifter Druid efficiently. I wish I could find Draculs Grasp in my solo play but no luck so far.
Hey Devs: Just try to get through the HATED Maggot Lair and all the immune to physical mobs in there playing self found without trading.
If the plan is to open up the gear choices then the Shapeshifted Druid is going to need a ton of love. Much faster attack speed from skills, ways to deal with groups ( how about a Roar skill that works like Barb War Cry stun?)

1 Like

yeah I like that, but good luck finding a Lo rune in solo play. All the runewords requiring hi runes are kinda off the table for self found. My current play through I was lucky to find a Ribcracker.

Actually I don’t think Death or Hone Sundan is a good option. Death has no weapon IAS (with the new patch hopefully it can be good for fury druids); druids are insanely slow with spears, with Hone Sundan you can only get a maximum 7FPA.

Just because a spreadsheet told you how you have to play to be optimal doesn’t mean you have to play that way. Take your spreadsheets and quit if you don’t like the game. Analytics kills the fun of playing video games.

Tombreaver is amazing. With two 15ias/dmg jewels you get 85% (90%) ias and a crazy 4-4-4-4-7 fury with 5.43 attacks per second. Then you may have a socket left to put crushing blow, life steal or more damage.

Crushing blow on Ribcracker is great vs boss … but gawd you lost credibility with your TR dismissal. Tombreaver isn’t really expensive too, almost nobody use it.

And for FHR, use charms? Or since TB gives high res, use Shael in helm/armor instead of Um?

2 Likes

Death, Hone Sundan and Cranium Basher are bad for fury druid

Tombreaver is almost the only weapon that can reach 4F outside of daggers

IK maul, windhammer BotD polearm and ribcracker can reach 5F

The fact that you suggesting 3 bad weapon of choice kinds of tell me you don’t really play fury druid

no it is not…that thing can do 8F for fury at best

even Buriza is a much better choice than that earthshifter

1 Like

I agree. There is obviously a lot of bugs happening now. I would love to use fleshrender . They just need to fix how weapons are working in forms and the speed issue. Wolf and Bear should have their own seperate speed from human form.

Fleshrender
[Barbed Club] (64-74) - (107-125) 1H Dmg
56 Durability
30 Str Required
No Dex Required
Item Level: 46
Clvl Req: 38 +130-200% Enhanced Damage
Adds 35-50 Damage
25% Chance of Open Wounds
Prevent Monster Heal
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
20% Chance of Deadly Strike
+20 Increased Durability
+1 to Druid Skills
+2 to Shape-Shifting Skills (Druid Only) Range: 2
Dmg Bonus: 100 Str
Weapon Speed: 0
Swing Speed:
Fast: Am/As/B/D/N/P
Normal: S

I was just trolling you :stuck_out_tongue: