Hypocrites asking for core changes

General Discussion
1

Yes, that’s right, I called the idea of asking for core changes AFTER having pre-ordered the game “hypocritical”. Considering it was clearly stated that it would be a remaster and as stated on the Diablo 2 Resurrected webpage:
Classic gameplay—the same Diablo II you know and love, preserved.

I for one, like many others, have pre-ordered this game according to that promise that the company made.

QoL changes that were announced are what people agreed to when they pre-ordered the game, not some of the core changes being asked for here. It is a real shame to see Blizzard/Vicarious Visions might be taking those guys seriously and asking for feedback on core changes proposed by some people.

What about everyone else (that’s most likely, many of them) not browsing the forums here and that will buy the game later-on according to those promises made by the company originally? If the game was modified with some of those core changes, they would be in their very right (legally too) to get refunded which I would do too.

Stop trying to make D2 remaster a remake. Let it come out first, the way it was promised to AND THEN maybe see a course of action if the game is successful (which it won’t be as we all know, if they try to please everyone asking for changes, the list is almost absurd).

2

Not really hypocritical.

I personally made the pre-purchase instantly when I figure out how because I was under the impression changes would be looked into and some already implemented in effect with the updated graphics/sounds and battle.net

Which I wasn’t wrong about.

I am excite!!!

These post just make it seem like the “purist” crowd is getting slightly more hostile as we carry on :man_shrugging:

3

What ever makes you sleep better at night mate, those are definitely facts. Another fact is that if you buy something according to “what you WISH it would be” compared to “what it is STATED that it is” : It wouldn’t be the product owner’s fault in the end, but yours, if you were to be unsatisfied and that is common sense. By the way, I would maybe like to see some QoL changes (in the longer term) but definitely NOT core changes, which I think some people have a real challenge figuring out the difference in between both.

4

Core changes are subjective, they mean different things to different people.

5

They are subjective because they are influenced by personal feelings/opinions but in reality, QoL and core changes are objective as they have their own meaning/definitions. QoL = Quality of Life. An example: Shared stash makes you gain time in your life by not having to create tons of mules to store and arrange your items, it doesn’t affect the “gameplay” in the slightest.
Core changes: Anything that will affect, to the core, the actual “gameplay” as it was originally intended to be.

6

Then we greatly differ on understanding what remaining the same is considering the changes they announced immediately

7

There are many people who have already argued on these forums that the shared stash changed gameplay they considered to be “core gameplay”,
such as hardcore players being able to easily throw items into shared at start of ladder without as much risk.

Some would argue stacking gems isn’t a core gameplay change, some think the inventory Tetris is a core part of gameplay.

One thing I can tell you for sure, is that you’re not using the word objective correctly.

8

It’s going to be okay.

9

Is it true to the best of your knowledge that there is a a report with an interview from D2R lead producer Chris Lena (the link is provided) that includes the words:

Is it true to the best of your knowledge that Blizzard recently sent out a survey to get player feedback on potential games changes (some announced and some presumably not yet decided)?

The changes are:

  1. Remap keybinds
  2. Shared stash
  3. Auto gold pickup
  4. Dedicated charm inventory
  5. Balance changes to items
  6. Balance changes to skills
  7. Personal loot instead of FFA loot

Given these facts, giving feedback is entirely warranted as Blizzard has specifically and explicitly asked to receive it.

10

Unfortunately, Blizzard is not bound to their promises and they have shown, that they would straight up lie to the fans to make better advertisement. The thing, I was most excited about in D3, was the PvP arenas. They were not only promised, but there was already gameplay footage shown. Yet they never implemented them, but instead screwed up the entire game with patches, changing everything lol.

I hope, they will not mess around with D2.

11

Don’t forget about the badass death animations they highlighted for us.

I was sooooooooooo excited to get my head ripped off by a siegebreaker

Oh wait

12

I would probably google the definition of that word since it doesn’t apply at all to the scenario you’re describing.

It’s important to note that as far as I’ve seen, not a single person advocating for changes is really opposed to separating the game into a limited (beyond what they’ve announced) changes mode and a mode with more changes.

Having a mode with more changes doesn’t prevent them from preserving the original experience, they aren’t mutually exclusive things.

Purists are asking to prevent the rest of us from having what we want, we aren’t asking for anything that prevents them from having what they want.

13

So true. Just a smidge worried by that survey though I hope it is just blizzard covering their a$$ in some way…

14

Remaining the same according to what was announced including the announced immediately announced changes. Exactly right and what it should be.

This is where we agree on, objectively, the word itself as foundation is the direct opposite of subjectively and those foundations exist whether you like it or not (and for a reason): Trying to distort reality to your liking isn’t anything gratifying or to be proud of, seems like we get a lot of this recently as well from many.

As of stacking gems and stacking runes: I wouldn’t mind at all (guess I’m not that so-called purist then?) as it doesn’t change the core gameplay. As of the inventory Tetris, if you’re alluding to the charms being in the way, it was absolutely intended to be that way, that’s what charms are, charms. They take room.
Whereas: Stacking potions per example DOES change the gameplay. It was 100% intended that way, as potions give you a certain amount of regained health per second, imagine consuming 100 of them at the same time, maybe too easy now right?

Balance changes ? Ok maybe, if it doesn’t change the core gameplay OK. Else, please do separate the player base, 100%.

  1. OK
  2. OK
  3. OK
  4. NO.
  5. Very unsure about that one, almost scared of that.
  6. Very unsure about that one, almost scared of that.
  7. NO WAY. Ultimately, please have a different server for that.

I guess this person’s right way of thinking was altered because of some people’s feedback or else that person doesn’t remember the originally made promise or what D2 at the core really is IF it implicitly means changing the core gameplay.

It is the exact word I wanted to use. Maybe you should take Google’s help too. The etymology might have changed recently? Seems like plenish is gone too, there’s only replenish now.

Mate, I’m so worried about that as well. If anything, we are legally in the right to have the payment refunded via credit card companies IF the product isn’t the same as it was advertised to be in the first place.

15

FYI: 1-4 were listed as QoL features
If I were a FFA only fan, I would be potentially troubled with the wording (I still assume that the question was mis-worded) of the personal loot question.

Prior to release, I am highly confident Blizzard would refund the purchase price. Even now, it sounds like a few people have requested and received refunds for D2R.

16

i think the point of contention here is some of the people really don’t understand what they are asking.
and how big a change that might be.

for example if i ask for a loot filter or a charm inventory… i know EXACTLY how big of change that is.

because i have played a d2 without it… and i have played a modded d2 with it.
i know the pros and cons of each because i have played over 2 complete seasons with both of those differences…

on the other hand i also see some balacing changes being done to the mod i play that i HEAVILY dislike… some changes are amazing, some good… some are bad… some are very bad.

i RUN the lootfilter “kittengale” on “path of diablo”
i worked on it during a very rocky season start and for the entire first week i was the only person wirth a working filter.

i know exactly what can go wrong, i know exactly how it can be implemented… and what is possible it.

loot filters are INCREDIBLY powerful
they cant change what drops, no but they can make what u see so much cleaner.

but at the same time when i talked about it in my thread i had people saying “it gives u too much of an advantage” to which i replay… it would only give an advantage of both sides did not have access to the same thing.

and yeah some people who literally dont even understand what a loot filter is and think it “changes” what drops… or they think some BS personal loot like d3 had

a loot filter changes how u SEE items that drop.

this is a massive change yes… but its still just a “visual” change
( althogh u can change a noise an item make when it drops too, as well as have the game notifi you if an item you are looking for drops and is within 2 screen of you)

and yeah some of these tools i dont think the a d2 should should have… some of them i feel are too strong and change too much.

charm inventory, i know for a fact has no effect on balance at all… and i know the people who think it does… are crazy… becuase i have used it for over 2 years on path of diablo… and it is hard to go back to d2 with not being able to pick up items… because its a pain in the *** to stick them in cube…

i mean granted in d2 i generally dont ever HAVE that issue becuase i can never afford any charms worth using. or they dont give enough benefit to use…

thats the thing about charms… they are either worthless or they are GG the people saying that “oh you need to choose”
rofl no u dont… u either have garbage or you have an GG thing you need for your build… there is no real im between other than resist charms when leveling.
i know EXACTLY what will happen to the changes i am for

but other things… like “personal loot” something that actually would breaking how games are run.

the people asking for this just think "oh its fun in x game to be able to not contribute and get free loot… not only do i think thats bad and that it heavy damages the game… but it id comepltly incompatiable… any loot they get would not no longer drop for other players.

if i join an 8 player game i wont see 6 players worth of items on the ground anymore with “personal loot” that change means all public chaos runs will stop…

it means every single person would be forced to put a lvl restrict on thier games to block people who dont contribute from joining… and then we would still get idoits who join with full MF gear and sit in the back doing nothing.
and yeah we can pk them becuase they are wearing mf gear but… that just wastes our time i want to be able to play the game and not "having to go hostile every moron who doesn’t contribute until they leave.

17

I know, the point is that you’re wrong.

18

So what? I do not mean that to be flippant. In D2R, you keep a D2 variant that is true to the original experience. You make a variant that is D2-inspired with some changes. If you are right that this D2-inspired variant sucks, do not play it. If others agree, they will not play it either. You have nothing to lose since you can still play the variant you like.

If you are wrong in that the new D2 variant is fun and enjoyable (or even more popular than the original D2 variant(), why are you trying to remove other player’s fun when their access to it does not affect your ability to choose the D2 variant that you like?

19

the difference is… you don’t understand or seem to even care what the consequences of “personal loot” might be.

as myself and countless other have already told u what would happen if it was added… on multiple occasions… i have explains to you all the issues it would cause over 10 times in over 10 different ways… and u just are either ignoring it and haven’t read them or you don’t care.

i get it… you like personal loot… but you CANNOT add person loot to diablo 2 in the same way u cant fit a 1 inch square peg in a 1 inch diameter hole.

the entire system of loot drops it based and every subsystem is balanced around… and the games and strategies people use are all based around… free for all loot where an 8 player game drops the loot equivalent loot for approx 6 players.

entire BUILDS are based around free for all loot.

and yet you dont seem to care.

im not saying “personal loot” cant work in a brand new game built from the ground up with it in mind… but u cant take a 20 year old game and just “add it”

if they game had been out for 1 week then yeah maybe you could patch this in.

but its not… the game has been out for 20 years… and you are changing a core system and thereby breaking every subsystem that relies on it.

and you dont either understand or care what this breaks.

when i talk about “charm inventory” or “item filters”

it BECUASE I RUN THE MOST POPULAR ITEM FILTER IN PATH OF DIABLO.
( a diablo 2 mod)

i know EXACTLY what im asking for… EXACTLY what can happen… and i have done this for over 2 years

when i say a charm inventory wont have any affect on balance… i know this BECUASE i have played WITH a charm inventory IN diablo 2 for OVER 2 YEARS

unless you can tell me you have played on a diablo 2 mod with personal loot and online ply and tested how that affected how games are and and how the economy works for over a year… then you need to stop pretending that you have considered “everything that can go wrong” with implementing it.

presonal loot isnt bad becuase “personal loot is bad”

its bad because IMPLEMENTING IT WOULD COMPLETELY BREAK THE CORE GAMES SYSTEMS

20

There is a lot of text here, but as I’ve said in other posts, you are making an assumption that people don’t understand the effects.

Many things in D2R will be different than D2, some intentional and some unintentional.

Many of us have assessed the effects of a personal loot option and found them to be minor tweaks to gameplay.

As I stated in another thread, there will be unintended consequences if games aren’t able to be left open with no players in them.

No matter what, D2R is not the same as D2. Many of us are just fine with small changes like a personal loot option as QoL.