How is Treachery BIS for act 2 merc?

General Discussion
13

huh, defense is also very overrated for a merc… Even for a Smiter or Zeal running around with an a2 merc, treachery is >>>>>>>> fort. Again, down time from curses alone is hugely beneficial. And who the heck gets 20-30% lifesteal on their A2 Merc? The trash cookie cutter build everyone does is Insight/Infinity + Andy + Fort so where are you getting 20-30% from…?

Treachery >>>>>>> Fort. Save your Los for plenty of other good runewords. If you don’t think so, then you may proceed and continue to waste your Los.

14

yes there is, seeing how what ever your merc is wearing cannot take damage, an eth fort is the better option. Semantics I know.

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15

I think the only problem with this analysis is it assumes fade has a 100% uptime.

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16

but it nearly does! Do I need to stream my MFing runs? Fade procs very easily and it will keep proc’ing even when it is already on!

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17

45% ias with a merc who has crushing blow and life steal is a lot of dps + survivability. Then there is the fade proc. I wouldn’t say that it’s better than a Fortitude but it’s a very strong option that will cost nothing close to a high rune + worthy elite base.

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18

yall are just theorycrafting. there is a legitimate guide out there that actually looks at MATH! You trust math to create your PC & smartphones but you won’t trust it for an a2 guide… Here I’ll spoonfeed it to yall some more… Treachery does MORE damage and provides MORE survivability!

**DPS Factor**
Strength: 209 + 30 (Andariel's V.) = 239
Aura: Might SLevel 20+2 = 250% ED.
IAS: 75(+5)% cumulative.
FPA: 4.5 FPA (4.54 Atk/s)
DS% / CS%: 46% (+6 Crit.)
CB%: 0%.
Special section: Hammerdin Concentration Aura SLevel 35 (PvM average- Calculations in regard will be coloured in blue from here on):+570% ED.
Damage: 1554-4429 (2991 Avg.)
Damage+CS%: 3108-8858 (5983 Avg.)
Damage: 3059-8715 (5887 Avg.)
Damage+CS%: 6118-17430 (11774 Avg.)
Total damage per 1 second: [(2991*54)+(5983*46)]/100 = 4367.32*4.54 = 19827.632
Total damage per 1 second: [(5887*54)+(11774*46)]/100 = 8595.02*4.54 = 39021.3908

**Environmental Speed Altering Variables:**
-Decrepify (50% Slow) ![-->](http://forums.d2jsp.org/html/emoticons/icon_pointr.gif) Jab FPA: 6.5 (3.33 Atk/s) = 4367.32*3.33 = 14,543.175
-Decrepify (50% Slow) ![-->](http://forums.d2jsp.org/html/emoticons/icon_pointr.gif) Jab FPA: 6.5 (3.33 Atk/s) = 8595.02*3.33 = 28,621.416

Decrepify length (3.4+(0.6*slvl)) @SLevel 12: 10.6 (Seconds) *0.21 (-79%) = 2.226. DPS output over 1 minute under:
1 full duration cast: [(14,543.175*2.2)+(19827.632*57.8)]= 1178032.1146/60 = 19,633.86 **856.75 less raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
2 full duration casts: [(14,543.175*4.4)+(19827.632*55.6)]= 1166406.3092/60 = 19,440.1 **157.42 less raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
3 full duration casts: [(14,543.175*6.6)+(19827.632*53.4)]= 1154780.5038/60 = 19,246.34 **1,171.58 more raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
4 full duration casts: [(14,543.175*8.8)+(19827.632*51.2)]= 1143154.6984/60 = 19,052.57 **2,185.73 more raw damage than Fortitude setup.**

1 full duration cast: [(28,621.416*2.2)+(39021.3908*57.8)]= 2318403.503/60 = 38,640.05 **5,079.48 more raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
2 full duration casts: [(28,621.416*4.4)+(39021.3908*55.6)]= 2295523.558/60 = 38,258.72 **6,676.55 more raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
3 full duration casts: [(28,621.416*6.6)+(39021.3908*53.4)]= 2272643.614/60 = 37,877.39 **8,273.62 more raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
4 full duration casts: [(28,621.416*8.8)+(39021.3908*51.2)]= 2249763.669/60 = 37,496.06 **9,870.69 more raw damage than Fortitude setup.**
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19

vampire’s gaze/tal paired with reapers toll that could also an amn rune. He have between 20-30 easily.

If you want him to have survival he can have it. While folks focusing on him as stat stick he wouldn’t be able to survive anyways.

Zeal din, vengeance din and smite din. Can handle content fine with merc alive.

On trav focus using max res armor, about everything else duriel can be great by the amount of resist, life and cannot be frozen.

If you pair him with defiance aura and fanaticism from din. He has roughly less 20-40% odds of being hit, plus apply decrepify effectively reducing the foes damage and slowing them, with a great aspd and lifesteal.

Might aura often increases roughly 50% while having double lifesteal you increase his steal by double.

3k dmg with 10% steal means roughly 3-4% which means 90-120life per hit. While 20% of 2k would mean roughly 6-7% that would be 120-140 per hit.

On top of that less odds of being hit, that would means less odds of being locked on fhr animation. So would steal more life per hit, take less hits and self sustain better overall.

Folks got used to invest on offense on merc because the imediatism and MF runs being faster, not because they wanted better survivability on merc. If defense weren’t great on merc, folks wouldn’t use eth bug.

Defiance aura, reapers toll, lifesteal helm and duriel you can have merc managing travincal, halls(without vipers), cows with some perks and other contents. While if you leave him alone he most likely will die on cows, mine can go well on trav and halls. Trav he only are at risk if he stop attacking foes by the map layout.

While duriel isn’t the best for trav, the max resist armor is the most interesting choice in there.

Reapers toll 12 lifesteal, tal helm 10% lifesteal, amn on reapers toll 7% lifesteal. That means 29% lifesteal that would reflect almost 9-10% on hell. While with vampire’s gaze should be 25-27% meaning 8-9%

If you consider that merc often uses jab and does around 2-4 hits per sec those leech stacks really well. On top of that decrepify reducing 50% the physical resist, damage and speed the lifesteal gets even better.

If folks consider him less stat stick and more like a real hireling, they would be surprised how much they can survive.

20

Sorry but only noobs use reapers + vamp gaze… Reapers is to be paired with GFace + Treachery… I made a 10 year old video on YouTube with my A2 Merc with Treachery + Reapers + GFace, trav is not an issue. I didn’t even have Concen on for this video! And neither did I even help my merc fight…survivability is NOT an issue.

Theorycrafting vs proven math, who will win?

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21

Not entirely related to your video purpose, but I use more defiance than holy freeze if my purpose is keeping him alive, while holy freeze and might I use for boosting myself, by either slowing foes or increasing my dmg.

Is not about efficiency is about his survival. If I would play efficiency run simulation I wouldn’t even care what they would use because I would be sorc on most of the runs or like you used eni hammerdin.

Without fanaticism, I would also run the treachery on him for sure. But instead of gui I would go to vampire/tal plus amn on reapers, for maximization of his survival odds. Less odds of being hit, leeching more hp per strike, having fast aspd. Sadly he could have bad time against cold effects, still doable.

While on my runs I don’t even use either enigma or cta and him handles just fine, I use fanaticism so treachery aspd isn’t needed, so I put duriel on him for avoid freezes and plus some hp.

While gui has some desireable stats for faster kills, the extra survivability helps him both because tal increases his hp pool and vampire effectively reduces the damage he takes.

A friend of mine had doubts about that, until he gone travs and other runs with max resist armor, tal helm and reapers. Was about 7-10 days ago up 3 days ago his merc didn’t died, while might and holyfreeze kept dying 1-3 times in a single run or 1 each 3-4 runs.

Focusing on his ways to survive, linking it for aspd is a viable way for sure.

In my friend’s case he eventually swapped tal for kira’s, treachery for guardian angel armor. He didn’t put amn on reapers, in his case I suggested consider him to calc of shael impact, if would enable him to reach the next breakpoint. Other than that, he is really happy with his merc survival. On his MF sorc (bliz+lightning).

22

I don’t really agree it’s BiS.

However, it is good enough for WAY cheaper. I’d rather use the LO value elsewhere unless I have other needs met already.

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23

that is all overkill info. yes it is about survival, and my video is just another proof of that. treachery gives more DPS and more survivability than Fort, end of story! If you want to be a weirdo and use kiras + gangel by all means go ahead, sure you’ll have a little more survivability but now you’ve lost crushing blow + deadly strike from gface and 45% increase attack speed from treachery, seems like a bad trade to me.

treachery is the best combination of surviving + doing damage.

24

Your entire argument is based on when treachery is fade procd. If the merc dies in normal farming prior to proc it doesnt really matter how great that fade is does it? The intent of the merc is mostly to give off the conviction aura, stay alive, and slow with holy freeze. Treachery is a pain in the butt if rng is not on your side. Id trade his proc/better dmg for survivability since his only role is to provide auras/buffs while I kill stuff.

25

how am I just going by fade?

it has 45% IAS which is just as if not MORE beneficial for surviving than 300% ED!

Once Fade procs it blows Fort completely out of this universe!

You guys clearly don’t play mercs with Treachery enough if you don’t think it procs often. I can stream my MF runs with my level 89 blizz sorc, my Merc has Fade on for 90% of the time I’m running…

guys just please look up “treachery vs fortitude” on google and bring up the first thread from that place that shouldn’t be named, gasp, d2jsp. Lightman created an absolutely wonderful thread with so much dedication towards understanding the math. He is a very smart guy that spent his time to give such evidence for our community. Don’t listen to me, just read his thread!

Table of Contents
1. Act 2 Mercenary Basics
2. Breaking Down Fortitude & Treachery
2. Setups Analysis
3. Survivability Factor
4. DPS Factor
5. FAQ

Act 2 Mercenary Basics

Refer to: [Extensive Mercenary Builds Guide] under **Merc Information**
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26

Try again, I went from an eth duriel to treachery and I farm consistently as a light sorc. I generally farm, arcane sant->meph->trav->chaos->wsk/baal and he is much worse off in average than before with the better base armor and resists. When he does fade proc he is great and I dont have to monitor/babysit him. Otherwise I have to use teleport to leash him back, toss pots at him, get to safe spots to help his survivability while I want to just keep killing mobs and moving quickly. His dmg doesnt matter, all I want him to be is a decoy and buff bot.

There is a separation between math/calculated theory and application. In application it sucks when your merc dies more often before the core reason for treachery even procs.

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27

all I can say is you’re playing wrong then or you’re very unlucky. My merc running Insight + Vamp Gaze + Treachery is such a nice tank for me and I go through a similar run and I rarely run into any issues with my merc.

28

Well, if you just need a meat shield and him to lure foes. Isn’t exactly a bad deal for sorc what he done.

Him having more damage is a riskier trade-off that sometimes doesn’t exactly pays-off. The 2 most impactful things on trav are excessive fire dmg and extra strong foes. In his case his merc blocks almost all foes, instead of 2-3 packs divided, but he plays as sorc so his mileage is more about him deal the damage than actually his merc.

He sacrificed his boss damage for better key farms and chaos farms. For him the trade-off was good enough. Because his objective is farm uber keys and kill ubers with other character, like smitedin or his necro.

Treachery’s fade is a nice benefit, but aspd is underrated for sure. I usually use more lifesteal in that regard, because most of the time the player should be able to kill more easily foes. Most of the time you can do well playing safe, that was what I tried to bring on the discussion. Because at end of the day, BiS is more about what you want to do and what build you’re playing than actually the gear itself.

For my fanaticism zeal/smite/vengeance. Is better for me to use the treachery. While my merc going with fortitude, duriel or guardian angel. About aura, defiance helps a lot even more if you are near the foe’s level or above it. Pairing well also with my high block chance.

In your case gui and treachery makes him really great against bosses, because the extra CB can make things faster for you

29

Primarily he has most risk at trav, council members after meph, chaos caster packs, and he is crap in worldstone keep if he isnt already fade procd by that point. I try to adjust my farming sequence based on if/when he does proc. Like I said and unlucky mentioned, it is more about his particular use. I dont need help in boss killing, I want him up front giving off infinity conviction auras so I can mow down mobs. If he cannot hold his own for a small time period in those situations it is a real pain. Dont care about the gold to rez him, I care that my conviction is down and I have to go back and get him rezd to get it back. I just want him to be literally a tank.

Btw, I’m even referring to this merc dying under 6Bo as well. So he is buffed up and still folding like a lawnchair.

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30

My merc with the exact same gear gets stomped all the time by council near Mephisto.

The fade doesn’t proc soon enough before I want to get in the action. So now its a matter of waiting for it to proc, or changing up my route. I never had that issue with Fortitude, on /players 8, yet its a coin flip whether those council members will smoke my merc in D2R online, with one player difficulty.

I’m not refuting what you posted. I’m just posting my direct observations over thousands of MF runs. If I want to spam some Pindle/Meph runs as efficiently as possible, I can do it with less risk to my merc as I do not have to wait for fade to proc with fortitude. With treachery, I’m usually having to skip the council because fade isn’t up by the time I’ve killed Pindle and Mephisto.

In longer farm sessions, Treachery is more than adequate.

And like I said, if you want to spend or trade that Lo for something else before making a merc armor, it’s the best course of action. If you have a Lo, and want a fortitude, and don’t need the Lo for anything else, it isn’t a waste, it’s a great merc armor.

31

I don’t know what math your guy is running on jsp, but a merc attacking 1.45 times quicker doesn’t output more damage than a merc that does a flat 4x more damage per hit…

With no outside sources interfering, Fort wins.
Decryp introduced without fade proc’d, Fort wins.

IF fade procs, and decryp is present, Treachery wins

Introduce hell and venom gives a slight dps boost against natural phys resistances and I might bring the gap closer in regards to dps.

32

That 45% IAS doesn’t even equal 45% faster attack speed when you take into account the frame breaks. If, you’re using a Thresher, the best it will net you is two frames, and a Thresher’s base speed is 13 per jab and 14 per attack. That two frames isn’t even 20% net increase.

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