You’ve got similar setup to mine except that I concentrate on 48fcr bp with 20fcr tiara, 35fcr spirit while still having eth upped titans on switch. I use teleport for positioning and skipping obstacles only. I never teleport blindly.
I should also mention that I don’t have this build myself but is something I will be practicing with once I get my circlet or higher damage.
The build works, it’s just people should be aware a bowazon is no sorc or barb while teleporting. If you tele into a mob you’re stuck and probably dead because you can’t teleport out with d/a/e active+blockframes preventing you. Making her tele faster gimps kill speed too much so ideally you’d clear the other side of the flame river first or move into visible empty spaces.
1 Like
Only if you’re a hybrid zon with a javelin on switch, and even then you can carry your java in your cube or grand charm inventory slot 
Somewhat yes, except for a handful of things, one which Crazy brings up:
So going beyond the comparative kill speeds of Fort Bowa vs. Enigma Bowa, you’re also talking practicality. Crazy is right in his statement. The teleporting just isn’t so great on Bowa when you “get caught”. And of course if you’re talking lv 93 or lv 94 or above, XP loss from death is a real issue. A single death at even lv 93 is worth 20x to 30x Hell Chaos runs, give or take how many average players are in your games.
Also, Amazon’s block speed goes down drastically if you have anything in hand other than javelins or throwing daggers. If you use Crazy’s method of only teleporting for reposition and never blind teleporting it’ll be safer, but you never want to blind teleport through say the World Stone without a javelin & Stormshield, especially if you’re glass cannon.
This again raises the question: “Well what good is teleport if you can’t use it in the same way a Sorc or Hammerdin can use it? What good is it vs. 120% FRW if you only use it for small repositions or small jumps in say the River?” That’s a good question because Enigma wielding Bowas are certainly dealing lower DPS than Fortitude Bowas.
You had said this:
Some things to note:
- Fortitude is granting +300% enhanced damage. Enigma grants no enhanced damage. Yes Enigma has FRW as an affix which allows more room for +max suffix on charms, but Fortitude also has +30 all resistance and +5% max lightning which does matter in D2 as lightning is the most dangerous monster based attack.
- The FRW on Enigma and the +30 all res are directly worth +max affixes in the charm inventory. The 45% FRW on Enigma could equate to 24 max damage from GC +4 max suffix in place of 7% FRW suffix. We can’t count this 3% FRW suffix off SCs if we are talking about pvm Bowas using GCs for +4 max suffix. Enigma also has 8% DR. The +30 all res on Fort is directly worth 20 max damage from GC +10 prefix. Fortitude also has +5% max resistance to lightning, enhanced base defense, and Chilling Armor defense boost. The point of this comparison is to show how much inventory space will be dedicated towards having enough max res or adequate FRW, while leaving room for +max damage. Needless the say, the Fortitude in conjunction with its +300% enhanced damage is worth a lot more damage than the Enigma. What this debate is really about is the question of: “Is the mobility boost from Teleport worth the damage loss from Fortitude?”
- Using Highlord’s over Cat’s Eye will not be a realistic option because the Deadly Strike from Highlord’s alone with no Gore Rider to boost isn’t really worth much in my opinion. The 30% FRW on Cat’s Eye will always be worth the reposition speed. Sometimes you just need to walk away from something instead of try to stand still and use a slow Bowazon teleport, if you don’t want to lose XP.
- Yes teleport velocity is always greater than FRW, but I feel like your comparison of reaching Diablo’s spawn point from River WP isn’t a good comparison in this situation. Again, Amazons just shouldn’t be blind teleporting like this to begin with, especially when on a glass cannon build, and definitely not if they aren’t using javelins or a Stormshield. The teleport on a Bowa is realistically only being used for small jumps & repositions or possibly back peddling back through an area that is already clear, which is a mobility boost in that case. When comparing the realistic use of teleport on a Bowa to a FRW Bowa, the mobility increase for being able to jump through walls is large, but the mobility increase for traveling through an area while actually stopping to kill things, such as in Chaos or Cows, is very small. Equating to clear speed, having superior DPS output with Fort is worth more in my experience, and A LOT safer vs. XP loss, due to the defenses provided.
- I would need to see a screen record of these Tele-Bowas clearing Chaos from the WP, clearing the River, all the way through Chaos clearing everything, to even begin to believe in a 3 minute average run time. No offense. I know a lot of people will do several runs and record them all, and then post the one run where they got lucky with spawns and it equated to a run that was 40s to 60s less than normal. What I would want to see is a 10x Chaos game run test, where it examples 10x runs and displays the average run time between all 10x of those runs. I would like to do the same thing with a FRW Bowa, but I would need to pick up some more pvm dedicated gear before doing so. The video I linked is using pvp gear with stacked resistance charms and a Diamond Faith. The run time listed there could easily be probably about 1:30 faster at least. The run I recorded was also the first and only run I demo’d. Speed runs are not typically my concern. If I was to get serious about it and try hard without talking the entire video, it would probably knock another 30s off of every run.
I’m certainly not saying that this method doesn’t work, but I think it’s unusually high risk taking for any small benefits it may provide in small mobility. I mean to make this have comparable kill speed to a Fortitude FRW variant, you’d have to stat for as glass cannon as possible, which sounds great on paper but come to find out in D2r with server lag issues, it isn’t so hot right now. I don’t know, maybe depends if you’re on the west coast near Blizzard servers or on the east coast away from them getting 200-250 ping constantly. Example: I live east coast. The other day I was running 50x Chaos runs to demo drop rates on stream. At one point during that run, my game lagged for about 2 seconds directly after someone had spawned Lord De Seis who had appeared with Extra Fast and Fanaticism. After about 2 seconds, the game dropped everyone, and I loaded back into the game to see my body on the ground, and that Lord De Seis had killed me. These kinds of things happen in D2r because the game is just unusually laggy for whatever reason that is. This is why I will never play HC in D2r. There is no way to avoid these kinds of surprise deaths. Even if I had quickly pushed ESC Save/Exit game, the way these servers queue actions, I would have died anyway.
The thing is, on a standard FRW Bowa who has Fortitude/Chill Armor level defense rating, it generally takes something like a Lord De Seis power spawn to kill you during a moment like that. But on an ultimate glass cannon 500 life Bowa with low defense rating, any mob in hell diff would kill you during a 2s lag spike like that. And it will put your face tanking defenses to the test like this, several times during even just 50x games. My point being is that running ultimate glass cannon feels great until those moments happen and they do happen. Realitsically, when you get “DC Drop Killed” like that, with no way to even recover your body, at lv 93 or lv 94 or above, that is just A LOT of XP lost. I mean like nearly your entire day or week of XPing, is lost. Is it worth it? No it is definitely not worth it in my opinion. In my opinion for D2r with its server lag issues, it is definitely worth adding a good 50 to 100 hard points into vitality, and making sure your defense rating & resistance is adequate to survive DC Drop Kills. The loss in DPS is negligent compared to the ability to save XP time like that. I mean seriously, if we were to up the ante of this debate into “Who could reach lv 99 the fastest on a ladder reset?” It would most certainly be the Amazon that dipped to ditch some negligent amount of DPS like 5% to add some Vita, so it never died and never lost XP from lv 98 to 99. 100% guarantee you.
Just want to point out that I’m not trying to troll argue with you guys. I’m sure these setups work and maybe they are slightly faster clears than FRW Bowa, which I’d like to run some more tests and find out, for the funzies. But even if they are slightly faster clears, I feel like these setups lack too much defense to where you can’t really claim that it is “viable” as a stable build structure. I would imagine on such builds, a player would die and accrue XP loss more often compared to Fortitude based builds. We can sit here and act like some players never die because they are that good, but we all know that’s bologna, unless you’re running some kind of chicken mod that saves/exists for you, like the old days. It happens, especially during lag.
Aside from that though I actually want to see these Tele-Bowa runs before discussing anything further. I think that a full tweaked Enigma-Bowa may be able to match a full tweaked Fort-Bowa in Chaos Clear walking and killing everything between the WP and Diablo, only due to its ability to make short jumps in the River, but I certainly do not believe it can straight clear it faster. I also do not believe an Enigma-Bowa could clear Cows faster than a Fort-Bowa. I’m pretty sure in this situation that the Fort-Bowa will always be faster. But if I’m wrong, I’d like to see that I’m wrong, not just hear people claim 3 minute or less full Chaos clears.
I’ll try and get a hold of a Faith GMB and a more pvm oriented charm inventory for the sake of some field tests here. I’d like to do some solo clears and 8 players clears.
I noticed streamers cherry picked runs with less populated spawns or favourable conditions to get 2 minutes or less. I always try to remain realistic with my videos for newbies. For comparison’s sake, I could record 10 consecutive runs with full clears = not leaving anything alive. Mine uses faith GMB. In my experience, around 3 minutes are more realistic. Some things to clear up:
- Clearing WSK1-3 and Baal afterwards requires the use of thundergods vigor. Lone wisp projector or +5 max lightning resistance from fortitude aren’t enough which means points invested into pierce until at least 85%.
- Clear speed on cows is more dependent on the use of razortail than fortitude/enigma. With razor, you effectivly clear 1.5-2 screens at once in p1 and amp faster in p8 with strafe and multi.
- Enigma has got LAEK, +2 and 45% frw at the same time. No way to get LAEK from inventory, very hard and expensive to acquire additional 45frw from inventory. You’re going to miss + to all skills for hybrids who use frost arrows or charged strike. So in theory you’d never teleport and still be more mobile with enigma, even in town.
- Ultimately, by sacrificing a bit of flat damage while acquiring more mobility and finishing the runs faster you lvl up faster and get more XP + loot for the time invested.
- In p8 games which aren’t cows, clear speed is very important. One wants to be finished before next game starts. During p8 cows, I usually clear chaos and pits before next game is announced.
Here’s one of his earlier videos from this player, pure bowazon spec. Read the comments too, they’re from me.
The context around this is people questioning the OPness of the teleport skill. Arguments were made that teleport is only used for casters and for skipping content. While the enigma vs fortitude choice is always a tough choice for melee builds, the example I cited with bowazons is one where enigma can be used to great effect while highlighting the reasons why teleport is such a powerful skill, and the example cited specifically mentions Chaos Sanctuary.
Enigma is great in CS since there are gaps to jump to save time, and there is a lot of back and forth on the map.
I’d like to see more tests of this in cows and other areas. My point ultimately is to not write off enigma just because it doesn’t fit with your play style, considering there’s players that have made it work. It’s something I’m really willing to try myself and explore further, which once I do, I’ll post up some videos to my channel.
Oh and I’m assuming softcore here as well, I wouldn’t have the risk appetite to do this in hardcore, especially since this enigma build is more expensive.
That’s a big part of this I agree. Based on commentary from this player, he definitely vouches for this type of build and has used it for hybrid zons and frostmaidens as well. As I said, enigma is not something you can just slap on yourself and expect instant results. It takes practice.
Wizard spike being a dagger also benefits from the faster block rates.
It would be good to see how she performs under these circumstances, though if she falls from a bad teleport, it won’t be because of amazon’s block speed.
That’s where I calculated that 16% number from. A faith + pride glass cannon bowazon normally has 17x to 19x multiplier on their damage. Fortitude accounts for 3x or 16% of that value give or take. If diverting more points away from dexterity, then that number is higher, but you also have to consider laying of hands as well.
Yes, there are some trade offs for charms if you want to try to match the survivability of fortitude, but maybe it’s not mandatory if you’re very proficient at using this build, I’m not sure yet. Resistances will only be a problem in bow mode and you do gain 45% FRW for your bow mode. Even now playing my forti bowazon at 550-600 life, I rarely fall below half health and to this date still haven’t died on her yet.
Actually, highlord’s on a level 99 bowazon with 70% crit chance from her skill boosts her damage by around 6.5%. It’s not as insignificant as a lot of people think, and goes part way to address the damage deficit from using enigma.
I think the main consideration is whether you’re teleporting in a map that you’re familiar with. RoF, CS and cows are relatively safe maps to teleport in, where as WSK is more dangerous. Definitely worthy of note.
FYI, the time comparisons I’ve mentioned were from the entrance of Chaos Sanctuary, not from the waypoint. To be clear:
- My bowazon that’s relatively budget: ~3:00 minutes
- Fully BiS bowazon with fortitude: ~2:45 minutes
- Enigma bowazon: sub 2 minutes (the video shows 1:40, but since I don’t have first hand experience, I’m calling it 2 minutes)
I’ll also mention that the fortitude times were done in single player and not on battle.net, where monsters have 25% less life than in single player. The enigma one was done on battle.net. That should reduce that difference.
Regarding lag, I think the player is on US west coast. I’m in Australia as well so I am probably in for a surprise if I start playing online more regularly 
I’d be happy to see your CS runs to see how you go once you do get your gear together. Do you have a channel on YT by any chance?
I do have a channel on YT but it currently has nothing posted.
If I make videos you need to check my twitch, which I have posted several links to that channel in this thread. Are you guys not seeing the links to my twitch? Serious question. I’m actually wondering if this site is somehow deactivating the links to my twitch. Here is another link to a video I made tonight about these Chaos runs → D2r - Bowa Chaos Time Trials - pt 1 - Twitch
It’s a super long video, so let me sum up a few things about the video you posted and the 11 runs I ran in Chaos tonight.
- There are two different types of Chaos runs. Type 1 is where you skip into Chaos with deep tele, skip most mobs, kill the seals, kill Diablo, make a new game. Type 2 is where you actually kill everything inside of the Chaos Sanctuary.
- The guy in the video you posted is skipping like 50% of the mobs between the WP and Diablo spawn, he’s not just skipping River. If you watch closely, he just straight up skips like 50% of the mobs inside of Chaos. He claims a 1:40 run but this is a type 1 run. I also did not understand what you meant about 25% less health? Single Player offline has 25% less health? Or does battle-net online solo have 25% less health? And what was this Tele-Bowa doing his demo on?
- The 11 runs that I ran tonight in online battle single player all averaged times between 3 minutes and 20 seconds and 4 minutes. Keep in mind that I am clearing everything between the WP and Diablo spawn. I am also using a Diamond Faith PvP Bowazon that did a restat to dump VITA into DEX. So my charm inventory is not only still budgety, but it also packed with large amounts of resistance rather than +max. If I had a GMB Faith and an inventory even slightly tweaked for better +max, it is likely that my clears would look more like between 2 minutes and 30 seconds to maybe 3 minutes and 20 seconds, even while walking the River and killing everything between the WP and Diablo spawn. But see this is a type 2 Chaos run. And this goes back into what I said initially about “The zon that takes its time to kill everything between the WP and Diablo spawn, is getting double to triple the kill XP & drop rates in about 3 minutes, vs. the zon who teleports in and skips the entire River and then 50% of the mobs in the Chaos, aiming at only seals, who can do it in a little under 2 minutes.” The zon who teleports in aiming primarily at seals/Diablo, would need to run 2x games to benefit what the zon who is walking is benefitting. The thing is, load out and load in time into a new game is a thing. So where the walk zon has no load out/in time during this, the tele zon has to dump probably at least a good 30 to 40 seconds leaving and rejoining a game and getting down the WP. This is a direct cut into the time doing those runs, probably making 2x games look more like 4 and a half to maybe 5 minutes. But the walk zon is benefitting just as much by staying in the same game to kill everything in about 3 to 3 and a half minutes. I am not trying to make coy argument, I am being serious.
- If the Enigma-Zon were to try and walk kill all of that like the Fort-Zon, it wouldn’t be able to keep up in kill speed and the teleportation really isn’t doing much when you aren’t skipping mobs like you can see in his video. That’s really all Enigma is good for, is just skipping mobs, which you really just don’t want to do on a Bowa.
- At one point during his video, when stands near the Vizier seal, he gets tagged by 2 or 3 normal monsters and it almost kills him. He has like 0% to 10% on all resistance and only 450 life. That’s just asking to lose XP. It doesn’t matter how good of a player someone is, lag is real and it can happen very suddenly and rather often in D2r. It’s just a bad idea man. I explained it well in the video but I"ll say it here one more time: The Chaos Sanctuary can be suddenly dangerous not only in lag but also without lag. You have the mages casting random curses on you, including amp damage or lower resistance. All it takes is one bad moment, when you have only 0% or 10% resistance, and a pack of champions or some unique spawns with just the right mods, and you happen to get hit just ONCE when those mages cast amp or lower res, and that champ and unique happens to be extra strong or has fanat or conviction. It happens to everyone. And if you are playing so carefully that it wouldn’t, you are certainly playing way too defensively to claim optimized kill speed. I would never run that build like that. When you get to lv 93 or 94, it is just simply not worth the risk to lose XP when a single death resets like the last week or month of your XP time. It doesn’t matter how good of a player anyone is, lag is very real.
- The video strikes me as someone who really wanted to be able to claim an under 2 minute Chaos clear time. But it is a type 1 clear at 1:40, and I am still not feeling the hype on this build structure when I was running a type 2 clear with unoptimized pvm gear on a FRW Fort Bowa, killing triple the mobs that he did in only double his time.
I mean at the end of the day, I feel like teleporting to skip mobs is time wasted not killing mobs.
I also showed a couple cow clear games and some attempted 8 player clears which kept ruined by people completing Baal runs too quickly or other people coming down to cut into my Chaos run, but you can see that build Fort build is killing REALLY FAST in even 8 player. Like fast enough to where you don’t even Atma’s.
If you skim through that video you’ll see. It’s a really long video, like a 4 hour stream. At one point during the end, I get distracted with pvp and then go waste time getting bumped around and kill by Paladins. Enjoy it if you want to watch. But I’ll tell you what, I’m starting to get a bit worried about Bowazon’s viability in D2r pvp. There are some build archetypes that just slam you like a hard counter from hell, now that desynch is gone. So we may be looking at Bowas from a pvm only kind of thing soon. I’m guessing there are probably big reasons why I NEVER see other Bowas in pvp games in D2r, and this is a bad sign.
But again, I’m not trying to be trolly, I’m just trying to provide demonstration for discussion because I"m a bored person. What I"d really like to see at this point in the discussion is an actual type 2 clear on battle-net online, from the Tele-Bowa in both Chaos and Cows, as I have shown in this previous stream. I also would like to get a GMB Faith and a set of better pvm charms, to see just how much faster it would make my clear times. The fastest run I had was 3:20 and if would have had that 15% increase in DPS from GMB and an inventory of less res but more +max, a 3:20 type 2 clear like that would have easily been reduced to probably around 2:40 to 2:50ish and that’s while killing everything from the WP to Diablo spawn.
Oh and also, I tested the block speed of the throwing daggers vs. normal daggers. You’re right, it is blocking just as fast as throwing daggers. However, I was also right. In original D2, it was only javelins and throwing daggers that granted the good fast block frames. In D2r, ALL the weapons are suddenly allowing fastest block speed. I tested it with a random axe and a random mace, both were allowing javelin level block speed. So this is another unofficial thing that has changed in D2r, which I guess I can’t complain about. I mean… it certainly may provide some interesting kinds of opportunities here… Like a uuuuuuh Bearzon is the first thing that comes to mind.
All good, was just curious because I don’t have a twitch account. I did see a few of your twitch videos earlier.
I checked it again, while I know he skips a few, it certainly doesn’t look like he skipped 50% inside Chaos. There were 3-4 at the very start, 3 towards the centre, 3 on NW side, a few more up at NE side and full clear on SE side. The 20 extra seconds I rounded up would have been plenty of time to complete the full clear… realistically it would be 5 seconds extra.
This is in contrast to what your best time was at 3:20. If the other guy also cleared river, even if you add another minute for river alone, that’s then 3 minutes, but it’s also highly likely that with enigma it can be done faster due to avoiding any detour terrain.
That said, I think it’s more sensible to measure from front of CS (the pathing line where it changes over) since you can get a “bad luck” path in generated maps and also, you can kill everything in river, but you will “miss” 25% of the loot since some of the monsters are in areas that you’d need to double back on and waste a lot of time collecting if something did drop.
Online non-ladder play has monsters at 75% health only, among other differences. This is explained as part of the 1.10 patch changes here:
https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.10_(Diablo_II)
Monsters (except for SuperUniques) in non-ladder Realm games are now at 75% HP (Hell), 85% AC (Nightmare & Hell), and don’t increase their AI speed for higher difficulties.
The video shown is on battle.net, you can tell by the game name being present. FWIW He’s also not prebuffing his might aura.
Honestly I doubt you will ever get 2:30 starting from the waypoint. I still haven’t even done 2:40 from the start of CS with absolute top notch test gear and I’m using Harmony as well. If you’re basing that projection on the 15% extra DPS on GMB + extra charms alone then that’s rather inaccurate:
- The GMB bow may have an extra 15% DPS, but after accounting for wartravs, charms, and other damage sources, that will drop to 10-12%. Refitting out your charms for more damage would increase it from there however
- You’re not dealing damage 100% of the time. More likely, 60-70% of your time spent from WP to Diablo kill is either running, repositioning, casting, picking up/managing items or waiting for Diablo to spawn. You can verify this by doing a second-by-second analysis of 1 or 2 of your runs, basically subtract any time you’re doing an attack animation from your run to get the total “non-attacking” time
And heck, me using my real bowazon build which does 20-25% less DPS and 70% less faster run/walk from items than my test build with top notch gear is only 10 maybe 15 seconds slower.
I’d be happy to see what run time you can come up with though.
Based on resources online that far pre-date D2R, daggers also fall into that faster category:
https://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Guide:PvM_Daggerzon_v1.10,_by_Ava
Thrusting weapons:
Javelins, daggers:
- 0% FBR : 5 frames
- 13% FBR : 4 frames
- 32% FBR : 3 frames
- 86% FBR : 2 frames
Swinging weapons:
Swords, axes, maces, hammers, scepters, wands…
- 0% FBR : 17 frames
- 4% FBR : 16 frames
- 6% FBR : 15 frames
- 11% FBR : 14 frames
- 15% FBR : 13 frames
- 23% FBR : 12 frames
- 29% FBR : 11 frames
- 40% FBR : 10 frames
- 56% FBR : 9 frames
- 80% FBR : 8 frames
- 120% FBR : 7 frames
and for D2R
https://d2.maxroll.gg/resources/breakpoints-animations
So blocking with daggers is very much intentional pre-D2R.
Good job, nothing is better than real life field testing. Allow me to extend your definition.
1-2. exactly like your definition.
3. You deep tele to the entrance of chaos sanctuary then full clear all monsters in CS.
Why would you do that?
- As you noticed in P5+, runs don’t last long enough to go from WP to Diablo kill. You want consecutive P5+ games for chaos clears, you have to cut somewhere short. The entrance of CS is the most sensible starting point because blood maggot and grotesque spawns aren’t affected by laying of hand bonus. Depending on their affixes like physically immune or extra strong with stone skin, dispatching of them could take a long while.
- Better comparison between runtimes. CS part is rather static compared to river of flames.
That said in p1 I go exactly your version 2 route. River of Flame is a very nice lvl85 area. I found lots of useful items in that location and don’t see a reason to skip when the wp is nearby.
About paladins crushing CS while someone is already in there. I’ve go quite an ear collection by now. I have to fight them with my bone necro and amazon. In CS, I do the art of dirty PVP. I usually carry 4 x 175psn scs for them and sorcs. Multi shot with razor tail and 1 point lightning fury/bolt with eth titans work against them. I don’t bother with guided arrow when other mobs are around but running into the mobs makes their life difficult. With necro, I’ve got the upper hand.
Just started watching more of your stream video. About calculating averaging times, do either of these:
- Create a new google sheet document and list the times out, highlight all the cells then look up the average
- Convert all the times into seconds. For example 3:34 => 214 seconds. Average up the times, then convert it back to minutes and seconds
See your average times here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EbhaT1MA8CV1H5CkS-B_CCZpyGvMw_KsurDb3_ft-NA/edit?usp=sharing
You can copy the document and place your future runs in your copy.
Anyway, will keep watching…
I saw this point responded to in the video. Where I was coming from here is even though it is a tele build, it’s still somewhat of a different style of play. Other tele builds can somewhat telestomp monsters but tele bowazons need to teleport but preserve distance from groups of 5 or more. My comment is also more directed more generally for those other players contemplating a switch from forti to enigma. I know you have a bit more experience.
Just ran into the part of your stream where you disagreed with my statement above. See the math for this below.
- 71% crit chance = 1.71 damage multiplier
- 37% deadly strike at level 99
- effective crit chance with 71% from skill, 37% from highlords = 82% or 1.82 damage multiplier
- 1.82 / 1.71 = 1.064, or a 6.4% damage gain from highlord’s deadly strike
For a forti bowazon, 100% cat’s eye is better than highlord’s, but because the value of FRW is diminished for an enigma bowazon, the damage gain from highlord’s is another option.
I heard you mention the west side of the CS entrance corridor was missed by this guy, I totally didn’t account for that. Probably another 5-10 seconds for that part still in the scheme of things though.
Stoneskin uniques
Also… if you want to more reliably measure average run times, I think it’s better to skip stoneskin unqiues all together as they throw your run times right out. The idea that a single monster can add 10+ seconds to your time makes it more ambiguous as to whether a build is running faster or slower due to the build’s merits or because of bad luck.
Atma’s
I’ve done a series of timed tests comparing different amulets: Cat’s eye, Highlord’s, Atma’s, tests are done on players 1 and players 8 cows. I posted my run times and my findings in the video below a while ago but basically: Cat’s eye for players 1, Atma’s for players 8, but it comes down to how many arrows it takes to kill each monster, density… but I’ll emphasise that these tests are based on cows only, but would also be applicable in throne room, bosses and generally tanky monster groups overall.
1 Like
The main problem with RoF from WP to CS entrance is if you kill something that’s across the gap to the other side of the river, you won’t be able to get to the loot without spending like 20 seconds running all the way back around again to get it.
Obviously for something as grand as a Ber rune, you would make that trip… but for things like unidentified jewels, I’m really not sure since it might be trash… but then it might not be 
but then if you’re killing stuff only to not pick it up anyway, you’re indirectly affecting your drop rates.
Then there’s always the chance of running into a dead end in RoF, which over a long period will affect your item finding efficiency unless you teleport through as you kill, or teleport skip the section entirely.
I will say, these are small things that could potentially make skipping RoF actually improve your efficiency. If you’re just after XP, then this is not an issue and then it’s worth doing the RoF.
I found your dream base, a +3/15ed/4os/2ar matriarchal bow.
On topic:
I hate monsters dying over the lava the most. The drop is lost forever. And no, I don’t stop to kill monsters from the other side of the way just to get there later. I just eliminate everything on the way to CS then you wouldn’t have the issues you mentioned.
2 Likes
Where is the extra 1 attack rating? 
But OMG congrats. Wish I can also get one…
1 Like
I found one with my 7fpa windforce amazon from my video IN RIVER OF FLAMES (the irony). I couldn’t be bothered with respecing again to faith/CS hybrid.
Well it’s still an issue because you’re skipping some of the monsters. Perhaps then it’s better to skip RoF and teleport straight to the entrance of CS or just before it?
Should I really start playing online for reals now 
the lack of ability to trade in single player is a major downer.
Eth Demon’s Arch is superior to ETH Titans when 1 point jabbing Diablo to death:
Dude… that’s not a fair comparison! Your eth titan’s run had your merc’s fanaticism aura out of range from you. Try again
Eck… calculated that this kind of drop is a 1 in 100 million chance to drop in hell cows P7 
Looks like I’ll be making my next faith in a GMB and 13% Diamond bow for now… I really hope a cube recipe can be introduced for plain non-socketed versions of this base…
Damn, have to repeat tomorrow. I didn’t think I was that lucky with that drop. Apropos, I found an etheral 9ed sacred armor with 930 defense in flame river on the way to CS. Morale of the story, don’t skip the river unless you have to. I also have a 14ed 4os shadow bow lying around.
Also, the test really should be done with a higher % roll on the upped eth titans. 164% is on the low side.