Here is my forecast of what’s going to happen with the current proposed v2.4 changes.
Mainly discussing Amazon here, but I’m going to mention the entire patch in general as well:
- Changes to Impale won’t effect anything in general normal pvp and probably won’t be useful in pvm either. First of all, Impale is just too slow in general. The skill could literally do “1,000,000 physical damage, unblockable, ignores defense” and it would still be too slow of an animation to ever hit anything with teleport or anyone who understands how to click the ground and walk away from the Amazon. However in melee tournaments where people like to pit attribute vs. attribute melee tanks vs. tanks and stand in each other’s faces without moving much, Impale could be useful depending on how these new mechanics work with preventing dodge & block shield animations from interrupting attacks. I will point out that no matter what we are talking about here, you’ll always still need the use of Stormshield in pvp so we are looking at realistically using something like Eth Upgraded Titan’s for the Impale in melee pvp. Using like an EBOTD Mat Spear or Warpike is unrealistic because the Zon wouldn’t have enough DR% in the right places, wouldn’t have blocks, and it would strike so slow that even in a melee ruled environment, people would still side step it too easily for it to ever be viable. In pvm it’s probably not going to be all that great either. People right now are so hopeful about these changes but realistically in the time it takes you strike let’s say Diablo with a single Impale, a simple lv 1 Jab is landing something like 6x hits. So if you were to base 20 Impale looking for big damage, the actual DPS “damage per second” offered by a 700%ed Impale is rather equal to a simple base lv 1 Jab that is rattling off 6x strikes in the time it takes to land 1x Impale. Also, when we are talking real practical use for such single target striking, it is vs. act bosses or UBERS. To survive in melee like that vs. the UBERs, you need to be hitting FAST to be able to continuously proc Life Tap with Drac’s and to be able to hit in quick succession so you are actually stealing health often. Impale is going to completely fail at this. Jab is the only way in melee to do this realistically vs. truly powerful single targets. And this isn’t even to mention that even a lv 1 Jab is going to get 6x chances in that single use to proc Crushing Blows vs. a lv 20 Impale in that same that is only getting 1x chance on a single strike to attempt to land a Crushing Blow. If they want Impale to be useful, they need to make its attack animation standard attack speed and then maybe give a drawback like when you use it, your defense goes to 0 temporarily until the animation ends. Then it would useful in both pvp and maybe in pvm. But Jab is hard to beat as a single target skill for physical based Amazon, due to the several strikes in conjunction with how the mechanics of things like Dracul’s Tap & Open Wounds, and a Goblin Toe’s Crushing Blow procs work. Or alternatively, make Impale a ranged throw skill that can compete with Lightning Fury or Charged Strike bolt passes. Just make the Impale a standard attack speed normal throw animation that deals a lot of damage in a line. This would allow build structures designed around the use of just physical based Java techniques “Jab for single target, Fend for mobs, Impale throw for ranged” in the likeness of a Phalanx play style.
- Fend on the other hand looks like a great change. 100% increased animation speed is fantastic and will definitely make this skill viable in pvm as a mob killer. Players want to imagine that EBOTD Mat Spear or Warpike, but realistically it will be a much stronger attack with the use of say Eth Upgraded Titan’s with a Phoenix Shield or maybe Stormshield if defense is needed. Fend will be insanely fast with 1hand Javas, and still provide the ability to kite & throw when needed. Fend on the other hand in pvp still won’t be used because against single targets it for whatever reasons strikes fewer times than Jab.
- The changes to Lightning Skills are great. Removing the 4th synergy and pushing up the efficiency to synergies from just 3 synergies allows a Lightning based Zon to hybrid itself in many new ways. This may actually make Light based Javazons viable in higher tiered pvp. It will allow them to maintain most of their current damage output but to also pickup other skills such as Plague Javelin for a defensive point or possibly even bow skills that woud deal sufficient damage to use, with enough hybrid point to dump into Crit Strikes. This change here to lightning skills will surely bring in a very large amount of new build structures to be tested in pvp. In pvm I don’t think it will change too much. Javazons will still be dealing generally the same damage ouput but the hybrid points will allow them some room to play with by adding some unique emphasis on their CSer build.
- Plague Javelin is receiving a significant increase in its damage output through Poison Java synergy which is great, but I feel like this buff is in the wrong place and here is why. In the old days all of us Bowa enthusiasts tried so hard to make Plague Javelin a useful skill because it theoretically should provide a good defense point to stand near to deter telestomps, but in higher tiered competition it never really panned out well for one big reason. The damage output was just a bit too low to use as a hybrid skill. You’d need to go at least base 20 Plague and base 10 Poison Java to make it dangerous or you’d need to dip too far into poison related gear to make it dangerous and when you did that, you begin to lose your Bowa based gear & skills or CSer based gear & skills, which is more important to maintain as those are the primary attack methods whereas Plague is always secondary because you cannot win with Plague as primary. What we needed was a flat buff to the base damage of the skill Plague Javelin so we wouldn’t need to dip 10 more points into Poison Java or to dip gear slots for poison gear while abandoning gear dedicated to the primary attack methods of Bowa or CSer. If we could maintain the damage output on just a base 20 Plague Javelin without 10 points into Poison Java or by picking up poison related gear, Bowas and CSers alike could realistically & practically hybrid for the use of Plague Javelin a a defensive mechanic in pvp, which they are going to desperately need after looking at the sheer buffing that some of the other classes have are undergoing. If any devs are reading this, this is the most important part of my feedback that should be paid attention to. The other classes are receiving these buff styles that are allowing not only sheer number buffs, but like attack stacking. Example: The sorc’s skill cool-downs no longer effect each other. So a Sorc could cast Blizzard, immediately switch skill and cast Orb, and immediately switch skill and cast Firewall, and immediately switch back to recast Blizzard, rinse & repeat, avoiding cool-downs. This is a CRAAAAZY strong buff. A single Sorc in v2.4 is going to be capable of the DPS output “damage per second” of 3x Sorcs now. Many of the classes are receiving strooooong buffs like this, Druid & Paladin definitely up there in the categories of veeeeery stroooooong buffs for both pvp and pvm. What the Amazon is getting completely pales in comparison to the sheer buffing that those 3 classes have acquired not statistically but rather mechanically, to be to stack attacks and avoid cool-downs. The Amazon needs something more for both pvp and pvm. The easy answer here is to buff Plague Javelin directly. Give Bowas and CSers or even new Fend melee Zons, a secondary attack they can stack with their primary attacks from Bowa or CSer or Fend. The answer here is Plague Javelin. But the only way to make it worthwhile so the points into Plague are not wasted, is to buff Plague Javelin directly, not Poison Java synergies. No one will ever add to Poison Javelin to bolster Plague Javelin because it can never be a primary attack. The best they can do is give the Amazon a good solid secondary attack stack by just buffing Plague Javelin directly for both pvp and pvm. Amazon is going to need this in both pvp and pvm after the other buffs they are giving to other classes. The statistic buffs to Fend & Strafe is not going to keep up with the kind attack stacking they’ve enabled for other classes. They need to make sure all classes have some method of attack stacking or simply DO NOT create a situation where some classes are stacking attacks whereas others cannot. It’s going to create too large a margin between what classes are viable and which ones are not, in both pvp and pvm. Necro and Barb are the other two classes that did not get granted the ability to stack attacks. Regardless of the statistical gains they are getting, those gains will not compare to enhancements that Paladin, Sorc, Druid, Assassin are getting, in terms of their ability to now stack attacks for massively enhanced DPS values. They very seriously need to review the chemistry of this new intra-class dynamic here before releasing this patch.
- Slow Missiles lol. This is a nice buff but to be honest it’s not really needed in pvm, and it’s always been banned in GM pvp to begin with, at least usually it is. But now with this buff, this skill will definitely be banned in GM pvp and it will create ultra rage in public BM games lolol. I actually think it’s funny. Amazon needed this buff for BM situations, particularly vs. Necros who want to use Bone Prison.
- Reduce cool down of Valkyrie is great. This is actually great for both pvm and pvp. Valk is important for controlling mobs and directing the targeting of things like Guided Arrow or Bone Spirit or Light Sentry or AI summons & mercs. This is a significant buff to survival in both pvp and pvm actually.
- I can’t really comment too much on Dodge/Avoid changes because when I read it I’m not exactly too sure what they mean by this this wording: “The animation can now be interrupted and will no longer lock out the Amazon from performing other actions” What exactly allows the interruption of these? Like if I click an attack skill or click the ground to walk it will interrupt the dodge/avoid and effectively be like I am WSGing out of it? Is this what they mean? If that’s the case that’s great, completely agree with that change and that it was needed. But if that is not what they mean, then I am just not understanding what they mean by this yet ^^
- Magic Arrow is an excellent buff. This will allow any Bowa who was to use my guide as example, an even greater triple damage type method for dealing with physical immunes. So we’ll have sheer physical output, and then Light Bolt to convert physical to lightning, and then a greater conversion of physical into magic with Magic Arrow. This skill should have been designed this way 20 years ago. Excellent patching.
- Guided Arrow is receiving a slight buff of 5% to 7% per point added. This is a decent little buff that Bowa needed and it will be impactful in pvp for sure. But in pvm it’s not going to make much of a difference because Strafe is going to end up being the new single target killer for a ranged Bowa skill.
- Strafe is receiving a rather large buff where it will now deal standard attack damage amplified by its inherent ed% rather than being nerfed to 3/4ths weapon damage. This is extremely impactful in pvm. First of all, this not only will make Strafe on par with Multi at least in close to mid range but in probably about half the situations you are in after this buff, Strafe will probably end up yielding greater DPS vs. condensed mobs in close to mid range than Multi. Guarantee you Multi will still be better vs. truly high density mobs that number 20-30+ targets that span for 2 screens, such as in cows. But Strafe while running through more enclosed areas such as Arcane Sanctuary is definitely going to end up being more effective than Multi even if the creatures aren’t quite all in a straight line. Strafe will also now transcend the DPS values of Guided Arrow while attacking a single target. If you want to target a single target in middle of a large mob, GA will still be better obviously due to how Strafe targeting works. But if there is only one target on the screen, Strafe will surely out-DPS GA after this patch drops. What we are probably going to see, is a true split between pvm Bowa builds and pvp Bowa builds after this Strafe change. Pvm Bowas are now going to opt to max Strafe over Guided Arrow, whereas pvp Bowas will still need to keep Guided Arrow maxed and will leave Strafe base lv 1. Strafe can SOMETIMES be good in pvp if you can catch someone offguard with it at the right time, but this is extremely difficult to do vs. higher tiered opponents, and as such maxing Strafe for pvp will never be an efficient build structure. It is also too difficult to fool by casting a summon behind a Zon before telestomping in, which confuses the Strafe. Also in public games where many people and many AIs are in the field, Strafe targeting becomes a mess. Overall, I definitely feel like the change to Strafe is good.
- The Elemental Arrow changes are definitely along the lines of what I wanted to see, particularly the buff to Immolation Arrow. This 100% damage buff will make magezon builds actually viable in pvm. This change to Immolation Arrow even made me consider if I wanted to play through as a magezon during ladder season 1 for something different to do ^^ These changes however will effect nothing in pvp. These Elemental Arrow skills just doesn’t possess the inherent utility they need to be viable in pvp.
- New Runewords in relation to Amazon → Allowing Insight in a Bow is great! Don’t get me wrong, it’s great. Bowas really needed a more convenient way to tag DPS output during a walkthrough. On the other hand, it pretty much eliminates any relevant purpose to use any other bow outside of Buriza, Windforce, and then Faith. But you know what? Maybe that’s fine. So we are looking at a progression of finding the first decent 4os bow you get around lv 30 more than likely and bam you have an insight that is nearly as good as a Goldstrike. Then of course you want to aim at obtaining a Buriza through trading the moment you get a decent mid level rune, and then of course aim at that Windforce the moment you find like an Ist or something around there. Then work on building that Faith. If someone were to give you a good hand-me-down or if you played a character first in the season and saved a 4os bow for your Bowa to start, the runes to use an Insight will be lv 27 so you’d want to aim at having a 4os Gothic Bow or a Large Siege Bow, which bother hover around 26 to 30 average damage and are usable at lv 25, to hold you till you can get that Buriza. But seeing as how the runes to make Insight are so abundant, you can easily just work with whatever you get at the time. On the other hand, The new runeword Mist for bows, is disappointing. It’s not that the runeword is BAD, it’s that it’s not good enough for the investment of Cham and Gul, to be a useful midway option on the journey to obtaining a Faith. First of all, this runeword even if in a Hydra Bow, is only about as effective as a Buriza even with that Concentration aura. No one is going to burn a Cham & Gul into a Mist when they could just use Buriza. Second of all, Windforce is just a lot better than Mist statistically and can be obtained even early season with just an Ist rune. Thirdly, the Concentration aura on it is kind of a problem actually because ideally the Bowa wants to have an Act 2 Offensive Might Merc wielding a Pride Polearm for a much higher level Concentration in conjunction with the Might, and then of course the Bowa gets Faith to have the triple aura with Fanatacism. So not only are Buriza & Windforce equal or better bows in terms of DPS output than Mist, but they are also both obtained through far cheaper means than building this Mist runeword. The Concentration aura would be nice at early end-game before you had a chance to build Pride and/or Faith, but this is simply not realistic because it requires Cham and Gul. If Mist required like “Um Shael Amn Ith Nef” ok, now that would be worth making and using for awhile. But as soon as any of those runes required go above Um, people are just going to save that rune to trade to get a Windforce. What I would have liked to see was a new bow runeword that actually helped make magezon builds viable. Ice doesn’t get the job. All Frostmaidens or Magezons eventually realize that the physical damage on Faith and the Fanat is just worth more than what Ice provides, even on Frostmaidens or Magezons. What they needed to do was drop a new good runeword that made the usage of the new buffs to all Elemental Arrows, awesome and comprable to physical Bowas in pvm.
Some side notes, other thoughts, about the current proposed patch changes in general:
- I am generally happy and excited about these changes. I was worried at first but after reading the intended changes, I liked the direction they were taking in terms of enabling more diverse build structures. This is an excellent route to take. For example, condensing synergies for a skill into 3 synergies that are all a little higher than normal, rather than needing to add to 4 synergies to get the DPS output. This enables more points to be skewed across the builds in diverse ways.
- However, I do feel there is too much general power creep happening statistically in attribute-tied ways across the intra-class dynamic. This is also important and I really hope the game devs see this and consider it. → Diablo 2 is already a game where end-game characters are clearing Chaos sanctuary in 3 minutes solo in an 8 player game, as well as Baal runs. With too much power creep we are very seriously going to be looking at 60 second Chaos clears and more waiting around for spawns at Baal than actual fighting because mobs are going to spawn and be dead in .15 seconds even from mediocrely built characters. I am afraid that this feel of “entering a game and it’s done in 60s” is going to very quickly become redundant and extremely obnoxious. This problem will become exasperated and infinitely complained about in this forum when an end-game post patch character can enter a game with such high DPS and kill speed, that in about the 6 minutes that he enters “Hell a1 let’s start” he can clear Baal, Chaos, kill Mephisto, kill Andariel, and probably have time to find Duriel with a 10 minute run if he really wanted to. The absolute clear speeds from these buffs we are about to get, is just too much power creep in a game that does not need power creep. I’ve been saying it for a long time now, we need a reason to STAY in games with each other longer for one main reason and that is “Social Cohesion”. D2 games flip way too fast already. You don’t have time to meet anyone and chat before objectives are completed and people begin leaving games or games are ruined by guys picking off act bosses before players get to them. It’s we are constantly needing to make a new game every 10 to 15 minutes or in some cases 3 to 6 minutes when people are following runs. The enhanced lv 85 areas will be good for this, when it comes to closed groups of friends who follow each other’s private games. But the enhanced lv 85 areas will not be so good for public game social cohesion. People will just fight over the lv 85 areas and fight over drops. Due to this, when it comes to public game play, high levels want to find games where they are the only high level who is farming those areas so they get all the drops and all the XP. This is what leads to public games being ruined when some guy wants to walk through the game and make friends while doing it but there is always a lvl 90+ Hammerdin clearing the game and ruining all the quests, just about every time a game is created. Sheer attribute-tied power creep is not going to help this problem. It will make it worse and probably put more stress on the servers because it will likely double the amount of new games being created constantly. And this is going to be really annoying to keep up with for any player. The mechanical patch changes to allow more build diversity is great and excellent in every way, but the sheer attribute-tied power creep absolutely needs to stop. Diablo 2 does not need power creep for the aforementioned reasons above.
- Amazon, Necro, and Barb, are not getting nearly as large of buffs as Assasin, Sorc, Druid, and Paladin. As I said before, we aren’t just looking at attribute statistic tied buffs here, we are looking at how mechanical changes will effects things. Removing cool-downs is a MASSIVE buff. What Sorcs and Ele Druids are going to be able to do after this patch will be insane in both pvm and pvp. They need to cull back these enormous buffs or make sure Amazon, Necro, Barb are also given some ways to stack attacks like this for the sake of both pvm and pvp or we will inevitably have a large margin of discrepancy between what is viable and overly strong and what is weak and undesirable to play at all, in both pvm and pvp. It’s already begun with Assassin. Assassin changes thus far have made the class incredibly bloated and overpowered in pvp.
~ Sorry for the thesis. I had just exited a discord conversation about all of this and then pretty much came here and regurgitated it all in this thread for the entertainment of anyone who was bored enough to actually read all of this ^^