Frozen Orb/ Hydra, It's still possible but

General Discussion
1

This is not meant to be a whine thread so no flame please.
I simply wanted to take the time to explain that this is still possible but, possibly not worth it in the end.
Note: this recent test was done on P1 which is relevant to why now, it might not be worth it in the end.

The recent change to Hydra synergies means of course that the limited split damage of a Hydra hybrid build just took a nose dive but, let’s examine the damage output.

If Hydra is only meant to deal with cold immunes then, Maxing Frozen Orb, Ice Bolt, and a few points into Cold Mastery will get Frozen Orb to a respectable damage. Maxing Hydra and Fire Mastery will get us enough fire damage to deal with the cold immunes.
This set up will at least, allow us to defeat Hell Baal.
As you gain levels, pumping up Fireball (at 5%) would have allowed you to keep the Hydra damage in line with Frozen Orb’s damage.

Using this gear in conjunction with the above skills would have allowed you to engage in higher player count content comfortably.

  • Full Tal Rasha
  • Spirit Monarch
  • Arachnid Mesh
  • Magefist
  • 1 Stone of Jordan
  • as many Fire GCs as you can grab

Thanks to the Fireball synergy revert, this is not good enough anymore for higher player content but, will still wreck face on P1.

Now if the play style still feels fun and you still want to play this new hybrid build then, this is how you can easily fix the build albeit far more expensive than before.
First of all you’ll need to respec and max Frozen Orb, Hydra, Fire Mastery, Fireball and a few points into Cold Mastery. After that you’ll want to get this gear.

  • Nightwing’s Veil
  • Death’s Fathom
  • Chains of Honor
  • 2x Stones of Jordan
  • Arachnid Mesh
  • Magefist
  • Spirit Monarch
  • Mara’s Kaleidoscope
  • 1-2 Cold GCs
  • As many Fire GCs as you can carry after that

Between Nightwing’s and Death’s Fathom, that will augment all the damage you would get from the Ice Bolt synergy and allow you to take full advantage of maxing out Fireball for Hydra. Getting Infinity will also augment your damage further but, you don’t really need it.

This will allow you to comfortably do P6 or so games, P8 will still feel a little sluggish but, it’s possible.

Long Story short, with the level of investment you need to make this build good now, it would be more worth it to go Pure blizzard or Pure Lightning.

Full Tal’s set up damage

  • Frozen Orb (650-700)
  • Hydra (1000-1150)

Fathom/Nightwing’s set up damage

  • Frozen Orb (650 - 700)
  • Hydra (2000-2300)
3 Likes
2

Now calculate the MF on both builds to see if its worthy the dmg?

3

Well, in both cases you’d want to throw on War Travs.
The full Tal’s version will have more than sufficient MF especially if you throw an ist in the Weapon, Armor, and Helm however, you’re relegated to P1.
The Nightwing/Fathom Version, you can socket the Nightwing’s and Fathom with an ist each, and of course there are 7mf small charms.

In the end though, that’s why it’s not really worth it, you’d be better off with Pure Lightning or Pure Blizzard. It’s possible though.

4

Thats what i though, and why i asked, coz it will be even worse to get the desired MF for a subpar build costing even more. Ty.

5

Also if people look at skills allocations, its going to be obvious that doing a hybrid build will always be lackluster. 20 pt Orb, 20 pt ice bolt, 10 pt cold mastery, 20 pt hydra, 20 pt, fire master. 1pt teleport, 1 pt frozen armor, already puts you at level 90. Adding a few extra points into the hydra synergies above level 90 add marginal damage. Yes you can also get more damage if you put 1 pt into fire mastery then max the hydra synergy instead for more damage but is it really that much?! Maybe ~300 more damage from 3% to 5% for hydas fully geared with +17 all skills but this hardly makes a difference on killing monsters/super uniques, Mostly boss kills.

6

I feel like you’re forgetting the +12 skills you’ll get from quests after all three difficulties. Also, you don’t need 10 points into Cold Mastery 1-4 (depending on how many +skill you have) will suffice.

1 Like
7

I’m not forgetting anything. I used an online skill calculator. level 10 cold mastery + 17 all skills gives you -150 cold reduction, bosses in hell are usually 50 cold resist putting them at -100 so they will be taking full cold damage. Sure you can save a few points from the added cold mastery but if you max orb and ice bolt you minus well do full cold damage. To add. getting +17 is hard to reach early so adding 10 pts into cold mastery is more likely as a hybrid.

1 Like
8

All you really need is -100% from Cold Mastery which would put a 50 res boss at -50, Hydra will easily take care of the rest.

As I laid out above, a few hard points into Cold Mastery and levels in the mid 80’s is sufficient enough to get the job done.
I used the actual game, you threw some numbers into a calculator.
I Went through Trav, Tombs, Worldstone Keep, Chaos Sanctuary etc etc… I’m telling you, mid 80’s is enough and above 90 will only sweeten the deal.

9

I don’t understand why you doubt the calculator. It was just to show the skill allocation. I never said the damage wasn’t enough. Yeah its going to work adding less into cold mastery but If you compare clear speed, a boss at -50 compared to a boss at -100 is a big difference. And if you’re sitting at -100 for cold mastery and you are deciding to add into FO synergy or add into cold mastery - adding into cold mastery gives you more damage output. Test it. Also if you’re going to run high end gears or tals, the blizz hybrid variant is usually better. Test it.

10

It is best to have -150% if you main cold skill, but if having cold as an off spec, -100% is more than enough in most cases. Most mobs are going to be 0 cold resist, some with 50 some with 75, and if you fight boss, while yes his cold resist is most likely 50 you probably gonna use something else, or in combination of 2 damage sources.

11

OKAY… hold up… I need clear up some things here. First you said

So you’re maxing Fire Mastery but, then only putting 1 Point into Fire Mastery? Either you mistyped something or, you’re extremely confused.

Yeah no, Blizzard needs way more help from synergies than Frozen Orb does, there is no way you are going to get respectable Blizzard Damage AND Hydra Damage in Hell, if you’re gripe with the Frozen Orb/ Hydra build is not enough points.
(untrue btw, there are enough points before level 90 to make Frozen Orb/ Hydra work)

In my original post, I laid out how the build works, I played it, works just fine. Bosses melt. Higher players is where the problem is, as I already stated.
If your aim is to express lack of power on higher player count, I already admitted it’s a problem and it was the basis of the entire post. In which case, why are we even having this conversation?

12

I hope they rebuff the Hydra damage and Frozen Orb as well.

These two skills fit well each other for end game content with 2 elements.

13

I hope the restore the 5% to Hydra as well, it’d be nice to increase the Ice Bolt synergy on Frozen Orb from 2% to 3%.
I don’t think they will though but, this Hybrid will still clear the game.
It’s just that after beating Baal, you’ll probably want to respec to one of the stale same old, same old Sorceress builds.
I for one, intend to respec to Pure Blizzard after Baal so I can murder Dclone if I find him. Then work on a Javazon, then probably a budget Smiter.

1 Like
14

When skills require 60 to 100 points to max out, there is no room for hybrid builds…

Either immunities need to go for trash mobs or synergies needs a complete overhaul.

2 Likes
15

The options were Maxing fire mastery and hydras OR adding 1 pt fire mastery and maxing hydras and the synergy (ie fireball). You get more damage this way but only slightly at 3%. If it was 5% you would of course get more. You didn’t read it correctly.

16

Fire Mastery gains +7% fire damage for each level, even if the synergy was 5% you’d still get more damage by maxing fire mastery.
If you’re not maxing Fire Mastery, you’re not doing it right.
Fire Mastery 7% Per Level and scales with soft points
Fire Ball (Hydra synergy) was 5% now it’s 3% again.

I read it perfectly you’ve just got your facts wrong.

1 Like
17

No this is wrong. That’s not how damage is calculated. Please inform yourself and test this in game.

1 Like
18

|Level|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|8|9|10|11|12|13|14|15|16|17|18|19|20|
|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|
Fire Damage Increase% |30|37|44|51|58|65|72|79|86|93|100|107|114|121|128|135|142|149|156|163|

Arreat Summit has all this information laid out and has for decades. Please inform YOURSELF sir.

Also, my original post was a result of an in game test.
You’re out of arguments buddy.

19

I don’t understand why you are not trying to test for yourself. The gap widens with more skills. It would be even larger if the synergy was 5%

D2 Skill calculator. You can go test it in game.
+17 all skills
1pt fire mastery, 20 fb, 1629 dmg hydras
20pt firemaster 1 fb, 1625 dmg hydras

20

Fire Mastery +30% Fire Damage at Level one and, +7% for each level thereafter.
This is irrefutable.
Why are we still having this conversation?

Also Synergies do not gain extra damage for soft points, only Hard points increase a synergies damage. I feel like you should know this.