My question is, does that 1 extra frame of dmg makes all that much difference in real game experience? ( letâs ignore the resale value for now) Though, I did put on mine for sale now, hope thereâs a buyer.
If you mean 8fpa to 7fpa, yes. Your actual rate of fire increasing about .30 or something like that is a direct buff to your DPS âdamage per secondâ.
If you mean difference between 95% for 7fpa or 100% for 7fpa, it strangely does matter on a Bowa because this declares which gloves/boots you can use. If you have lv 13 fanat on the bow, you can use Laying Of Hands for the +350% to demons mod and War Traveler for the +15-25 damage, which adds up to more like 200-350 actual character damage. But if you have a lv 12 fanat, you have to wear IK gloves/boots for the 25%ias bonus to maintain 7fpa, and you lose the 350% damage to demons and 15-25 damage from war trav.
Having the lv 13 fanat on the faith bow does actually matter a lot more than people realize. Truth be told, lv 12 Faith GMB are essentially ruined rolls, unfortunately.
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I put it up and have just sold it for a Jah. Now looking to get a better one. Thanks for your input.
Wow⊠But I guess a GMB bow can be used for 1 thing only. I was building a Faith bow for a merc, had rolled 3 bows in the cube with no 4 sockets, when someone was selling a bow.
It was of course 12 fana, but I took pity on him and bought it for a Jah and consider myself having saved an Ohm. Mind you it was for my Barb ,who are now running dual Deaths in Ettin axes, with max breakpoint. They have highest average damage, and look better than the little tiny zerker axe. Later my experiment, the melee sorc will borrow it so she can have fanaticism too and hit max breakpoints.
1 frameshift is 30% more attacks? I am surprised at this, I thought it was around 10% damage increase. If the game runs at 24 fps, how can a shift from 8 to 7 frames per animation become 30% increase in firerate?
I think you may be unfamiliar with these tools:
https://d2.lc/IAS/
Itâs actually more like a .45 increase in attack rate.
As far as this, we are talking about two different things here:
Iâm talking about attacks per second, not frames per attack. Use the calculator link and youâll see what Iâm talking about. 8fpa to 7fpa is gaining about 15% more attacks per second, which is equivalent to 15% more DPS.
Select Amazon, GMB, lv 13 fanat, push enter, look at the tiny chart that pops up in a different window.
No I am not unfamiliar with these tools, itâs what I base my question on. If you take Ama with GMB, 8 fps is 3.12 attacks pr second. 7 FPS is then 3.57 attacks pr second. An increase of 0.45, from 3.12, is abit above a 10% increase, around 13%.
Pretty far from the 30% that you claim.
I didnât say 30%, I said .30 in reference to the calculator attacks per second.
Reread my post.
Oh god you edited your post and are now lying.
Nope, I just clarified the posts better so they werenât confusing.
I had originally said .42 which was wrong. It was .45.
I never said 30% dps my dude. I was talking about .30 attack per second, which was an estimate I used without checking the ias calculator. It was .45 which is actually higher than my estimate.
I donât know what youâre doing but you are viewing everything extremely aggressively and seem to have some kind of an agenda to make what Iâm saying here look bad. You should consider that maybe you are the one who is seeing things through some kind of forum flame war salt lens, and reacting as such. I edit my posts with information to make sure they are accurate, if & when I see they need updating, the same as I do in my guides.
You need to relax, it isnât a conspiracy.
I do think itâs interesting though how users like yourself operate. Itâs one thing to bring up & point out that someone may be slightly off in an estimate and then leave it alone once it is corrected, but itâs another thing entirely to keep attacking something like a shark in a feeding frenzy even after it was corrected.
I could have done the same thing to you when you said â10% DPS increaseâ which was incorrect as well, but you can see that I chose not to do this, because I like to keep informative threads classy.
Anyway, cheers man.
Happy new year.
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You are lying, you litterally wrote that it was 30% attack speed increase affectively leading to 30% DPS increase.
You are lying.
You need to go to hell.
Wow felix⊠Make another character, I think youâll be better off. It was nice that you challenged the info at the beginning, we all learned from the exchange. But now⊠just stop cus youâre not bringing anything meaningful.
I, for one, am VERY glad to have someone who has tested everything and detailed everything in a guide. Nobody else came up with a firm conclusion on the different setups.
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Begone Satan
20 characters
Appreciate your thoughts. I used to play bowazon in classic and recently built a new one based on some of the principles you outlined in a guide you posted elsewhere. The discussion here has focused on WF/faith vs faith/pride, but what are your thoughts on WF/pride if AR is not a problem (for PvM)? Thanks!
Iâm actually wanting to make a bowazon now guys, thanks.
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WF/Pride will work fine, but it is a step towards the goal of Faith/Pride.
The setup wonât be optimized until you land a Faith with the Pride.
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Thank you! After reading you guide I am most certainly enticed to try built P-bowzon (or better say re-model one I got for fun purpose)
Appreciate the reply. I do think in specific instances WF/Pride clears faster or just as fast as Faith/Pride. In p1 CS clearing speed runs, you get similar if not faster times with the WF/Pride setup at around 2:00, assuming no teleporting and full clear. I think a Faith/Pride setup can, at best, hope for a similar time. This might have to do with clearing packs in 2-3 MS volleys with WF vs 3-4 volleys with Faith, which would mean you move on to the next pack faster with WF even with the attack speed differential. This is just based on some speed run competitions Iâve seen, but you have more experience here, so your thoughts would be appreciated.
Not sure what youâre watching or what setups they are using, but what weâre looking at here is that WF/Pride is only capable of 9fpa while using important gear, whereas Faith is capable of 7fpa.
8fpa on WF/Pride requires 150%ias, which would only be possible if a person ditched 300% Fortitude and went for some kind of 60/160 setup. This is a large loss in damage when you donât have Fanat granting that additional 288% for lv15. Remember that these ed% modifiers effect all max damage charms in your inventory as well as 15-25 War Trav.
WF/Pride at 9fpa will not keep up with Faith/Pride at 7fpa.
Really what weâd be realistically comparing then is:
- WF/Pride firing at 8fpa wearing 60/160 having a grand total of about Might 210%ed, Conc 345%ed, 45/120%ed, 60/160%ed, and letâs say 400% DEX = 1235%ed effecting the WFâs weapon damage which would be about 35 to 520 damage (avg 277) around level 90, as well as the other max damage on the character from War Trav & Charms. âRemember that all ED% and Max Damage on the weapon itself is calculated before this equation and only applies to the weapon itselfâ. This is why I did not include the WFâs natural damage output on the weapon itself.
- Faith GMB/Pride firing at 7fpa wearing Fort, with the same setup build as the above only swapping in Faith & Fort, would grand total more around 1663%ed that effects both the weapon damage of Faith and the +max on War Trav & Charms. The GMB Fathâs actual weapon damage being 62 to 320 (avg 191).
- Now letâs consider this Zon is a true pvm zon, using 7x +14max GCs, Torch & Anni stacked vertically taking up 3 slots as an 8th GC, and then 8x +3max SCs. This is a total of +122 max damage from charms. Now letâs also consider 15-25 War Trav, so this is another misc 15min - 147max flat damage to be amplified in the equation by all off-weapon ED% mods.
- The 277 avg damage from WF with its 1235%ed will become 3420 avg damage. That 1235%ed when applied to the War Travs & Charms will make the +15-147 become +185-1815 âinteresting to see how those small damage blow up after ed% modsâ. The avg damage of 185-1815 is 1073. So that added to the WF avg is 4493. We are looking at a total standard attack average damage output of 4493 for the WF/Pride setup, firing at 8fpa.
- The Faith GMB average weapon damage of 191 amplified by 1663%ed will become 3176 avg damage. And then that War Trav & Charm flat damage of 15-147 will become 249-2444, with an avg damage of 1346. This added to Faith GMB avg is 4,522. So we are looking at a standard attack from Faith GMB averaging 4,522, which is firing at 7fpa.
- Ultimately we are looking at WF standard avg damage firing at 8fpa only achieving 4493, and then the Faith GMB achieving 4,522 which is actually higher damage AND firing faster at 7fpa.
It may be hard to believe, but the Faith GMB is just always better in the end. And those aforementioned numbers didnât even point out the +120 fire damage on Faith or its +% to undead, or the fact that it never misses targets with Multi or Strafe, as well as the +2 all skills and +3 to bow, It even makes the a2 merc hit harder & faster as well as the valk, and it summons little skeletons all over the place to tank things in high density mob areas when you are soloing 8 player ^^
WF/Pride can keep up, but the GMB Faith is just better not only damage wise but for plenty of other reasons, such as how Faith GMB has +15 all res on it and allows you to wear Fortitude for another +30 all res and +5% to max light for 80% light vs. those Black Souls.
Please donât take this post the wrong way. I just wanted to list the math for you so you could see what was going on here.
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Thanks for this. I agree with the math and have played around with maxroll. I was actually thinking 9fpa WF/Pride vs 7fpa Faith/Pride. The 8fpa setup is not viable. Versus 9fpa WF/Pride, the DPS on the Faith/Pride will be slightly higher on any elite bow achieving 7fpa, but I was referring to empirical CS p1 clear speed. A recent reference is a CS clearing competition on jsp. The OP is Mdionne1990, if youâre interested. Itâs not research-grade evidence, but regardless of dps, the logic behind killing in 3 volleys at 9fpa does mean you move through mobs quicker than with 4 volleys at 7 fpa.