he already has lower resist skill, does he still need sunder charm?
and if he use 70 sunder charm, does he still need the lower resist skill?
I am on my way to create my own poison necro
Short version, use both.
Long version, here’s the basics:
- Monsters can have WAY higher resistances than you would think. For example, Bishibosh has like 175 Fire Resist in Hell difficulty.
- 1% resist = 1% damage reduction. This works for negatives as well (extra damage). So, 100% resistance = zero damage from that element (enemy is immune). -50% resistance = creature takes 1.5x the usual damage. Etc.
- When a monster is considered “immune” it gets an ADDITIONAL benefit, in that ALL sources that would LOWER its resistance, ONLY do so at HALF their usual potency. This applies even if the creature is debuffed to lose the immunity.
- Sunder Charms apply the “Sundered” debuff which CAPS an enemy’s resistance at 95%. They’re still considered “immune” but they are now FUNCTIONALLY able to be damaged. But they’re still “technically” immune.
What this means is that Lower Resist, which is capped at iirc like 70%, will only lower a Poison Immune’s resistance by like 35%. Which probably isn’t enough to even break the immunity in the first place against most monsters in Hell mode. But, with a Sunder, you now START with a 95% and take 35% off of that, for 60% resist. It makes a HUGE difference in spite of only being half as effective as it “should” be.
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It’s 1/5th Effectiveness for Conviction + Lower Resist when it comes to breaking Immunity or lowering Resistance on Sundered Enemies(Cold Mastery works at 1/5th too against Sundered). Facets or -Enemy Resistance on Gear work at 100% but only when Enemy Resistance is less than 100%. That is why Conviction/Lower Resist Curse are so strong/necessary pre-Sunder Charm. If memory serves, Amplify Damage and Decrepify are not hindered by Sunder Charm limitations so if you have a Physical Sunder to get their Resistance to 95, you can drop them into the red with Amplify Damage. Without Sunder Charm though, they too work at 1/5th Effectiveness when breaking Immunity(which was the only way to break Physical Immunity). Alternatively, you could use Sanctuary Aura(via Lawbringer/Azurewrath) that ignores Enemy Physical Resistance(including any debuffs) but it only works on Undead.
TLDR: Use both but Lower Resistance works at 20% Effectiveness to break Immunity or against Sundered Enemies. Meaning -70 All Resistance = -14 All Resistance in that scenario. -Enemy Poison Resistance(found on Trang-Oul Set + Death Web Wand and Poison Rainbow Facets) work at 100%(hence you can drop Poison Immune enemies into the Red with Sunder Charm + Lower Resistance + those items).
I prefer the sunder charm. I run a one hit KO poison necromancer where lower resistance curse isn’t necessary.
Deaths web with poison facet
Shako with poison facet
3 piece trangs with poison facet in the shield
And a poison sunder charm.
In p1, with -84% enemy poison resistance, my poison nova will kill everything in one shot without having to cast lower resist at all.
Even venom lords and poison immunes go down in one shot- as long as they aren’t minions/champions/uniques <— these will require a second poison application.
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If I was making a Poison Necro, I’d do full Trangs + Death Web. I mean yeah that means no Teleport and less +Skills overall(+3 vs. +4 in 3-piece setup) but you’d walk as fast as you run(meaning no loss in Defense or Block) and you’ll have slightly better -Enemy Poison Resistance(-95 max vs. -90 with Enigma + Shako). Also, you’ll look cool as a Vampire(the one thing that sets the Necro Set apart from the other 6). Yeah, the FCR on Vampire sucks but you don’t cast P.Nova that fast to begin with given how Poison Damage is treated.
hmm, planning on using dweb and homonculus (aiming for max block rate) with poison facet in it
for another gear, I think I’d use shako, trang gloves, arachnid mesh, and war trav
anyway thanks for the explanation, I’ll still use that sunder charm…
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I am using
Facetted Dweb for -res, LaeK and MaeK (very important!)
Bramble Armor for +damage, LaeK, Spirit of Barbs and thorns
TO Gloves, Belt, Wings (facetted) for -resist and +damage
crafted amu +2 necro +10 fcr
2x 10 fcr rings
Rare diadem with +2 necro and 20% FRW
Silkweave boots for MaeK
Naj’s Puzzler in 2nd weapon slot for teleport charges
Act 1 cold rogue with forty, andys and either ice or harmony matriarchal bow, depending on my needs (safety or speed).
This build works very well. I am using maxed skellies, spirit of barbs and 1 pt clay golem as decoys and for additional thorns damage. 1 pt to corpse explosion for additional damage when fighting champions and uniques or in narrow spaces.
I run a nice teleport ammy on my full trang pnova nec with +2 nec skills and it helps a ton in situations where I really need it while frw from trangs is great for everything else
True, TP Amulet would work, as would a Naj Staff on switch if I really needed Teleport in a pinch. I just don’t really care if I have Teleport or not because I play Paladin and Barbarian the most, hence don’t really care if I have it or not.
@LastSuha: I recommend you give 3-piece Trang-Oul(Gloves, Belt, Off-Hand), if not full Trang-Oul, some consideration since Trang-Oul Off-Hand gains -25% Enemy Poison Resistance with 3-piece bonus. Piercing Enemy Resistance is a rare attribute to have and you can add a 5/5 Poison Facet for a nice fat +30% Poison Skill(w/ Gloves) and -30% Enemy Poison Resistance. Utilizing the full Set yields other nice perks that you’ll have to see for yourself.
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If the negative poison resistance from the charm is a problem too, get a prayer+insight+cure mercenary, and all your poison problems will go away 
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Prayer + Insight + Cure combo is one of the better A2 setups. Yet if they use Full Trangs, they really won’t need it with respect to Poison Resistance. They already get 130 Poison Resistance from the full set. Factor in Anya, Torch(minimum roll), Anni(minimum roll) and a Maras Amulet(minimum roll) and you’re at 30 Poison Resistance on Hell with a 70 Poison Sunder. Then a good pair of Sandstorm Treks and bam you’re at 75 cap. FCL Resistance isn’t bad either and need I remind everyone of the 25% Physical Resistance the full Set has(which people often overlook). It also has +25 Life Regeneration(~2.5 life per second… nothing compared to Prayer but figure I’d mention it) and insane FRW mobility with a very unique defensive quirk(walk as fast as you run, hence no loss in Defense/Block). Just has no Teleport(save on Switch or TP Amulet) and piss poor FCR but P.Nova is cast once every few seconds and the O-Skill Fire Wall is also pretty nifty for Bosses.
So rather than rolling Prayer/Insight/Cure, I often roll Thorns(because it scales on difficulty and is nice for Revives or Allies) + Doom for the insane Slow on Holy Freeze or Infinity because the combo of Conviction + Lower Resist(or Amplify Damage) is nice for Allies. Full Trangs yields 105% Mana Regeneration so it’s not like you really need Meditation Aura on Insight if you are shrewd on your spell use.
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just to be clear, since noone told ya if I see it correctly:
(A sunder charm lowers the resistance value of monsters immune to that very damage type to 95%) while always lowering your own resistance to that damage type by the noted value - 70% in your example.
im just saying, i’ll kill any full trangs poison necro 1v1ez gg.
if you’re not wearing enigma on a poison necro, why are you even playing a poison necro. you’re literally wasting your time not using one. give any sane person an enigma, bramble, and trangs for 30 minutes and they’ll be using the enigma after 2 minutes. poison necro gots to move around and cast fast.
poison necro is literally a lightning nova sorc in every way. you dont ever see lightning nova sorc wearing full trangs…they’d suck.
This is why Bravata is best friends with claymore12
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I am using Bramble and Najs Staff on swap and act 1 Harmony rogue. Never needed that silly op Enigma.
But some people are using a stopwatch while playing, lol. To each his own. 
My season 6 ladder character was a full trangs poison necro with a white wand. It wasn’t bad at all. A bit embarrassing when playing next to meta builds like hammerdin obviously, but with a little patience, I was able to farm almost any area in the game.
Obviously not a pvp build but it was fun.
yeep, I just want to ask the same question,
I am wearing 70 poison sunder charm right now, why the charm also lower my resistance too? lol
is this some kind of bug, or it is what it is?
It is fully intentional, and always has been.
All Monsters in Diablo 2 have a base Resistance that can be found on old Arreat Summit(abandoned Site btw… not even secured) or other online resources. On Hell Difficulty, the vast majority of Monsters have at least One Immunity. Immunity is defined as Resistance at 100 or greater and so long as they are immune, they take zero damage from that respective Element. The only way to break Immunity is as follows:
Physical: Amplify Damage, Decrepify and Sanctuary aura*. Quite rare to find it on Trash(normal Monsters) but Stone Skin Uniques can gain Physical Immunity.
Magic: Cannot be broken so Bone Necromancers + Hammerdins need a secondary source of damage. As rare as Physical Immunity.
Fire: Conviction aura or Lower Resist
Cold: Conviction aura or Lower Resist
Lightning: Conviction aura or Lower Resist
Poison: Lower Resist only
*Sanctuary aura causes affected enemies to have their Physical Resistance ignored. This also applies to any debuffs that would otherwise send their Physical Resistance into negative territory. Only works on Undead and only benefits the aura holder.
When breaking immunity, the above skills work at 20% effectiveness. Meaning if a Monster has 120 Fire Resistance, a level 25 Conviction would break its immunity and set it to 90 Resistance. Anything with a Fire Resistance of 130 or above could not be broken unless they were ALSO afflicted with Lower Resist curse. Cumulatively, anything at 145+ Fire, Cold or Lightning Resistance is unbreakable(anything at 120+ Physical and 115+ Poison as well).
Sunder Charms completely negate a Monsters immunity(regardless of how high their Resistance happens to be) and sets it to 95% for that respective Element(ex: Fire Sunder Sunders Fire Resistance). When a Monster’s resistance is Sundered, Conviction, Lower Resist and Cold Mastery(Cold Sunder only) all work at 20% Effectiveness for that particular Element. Amplify Damage and Decrepify still work at 100%. The reason why is because Rainbow Facets and -Enemy Resistance gear exist for Fire, Cold, Lightning and Poison.
In exchange for Sundering Monster Immunity, your Resistance to that Element is reduced by 70-90 so its best to get a 70 Sunder Charm to limit the penalty. Well worth the price for not having to get an Infinity Mercenary in order to even deal damage.
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Bug? It’s written on the item.
Admittedly, only Bone Break is crystal clear about the wording, could be a tad bit better for the other Sunders.
And the patch release notes from over 2 years ago are also very clear.
to amend: the physical and magic sunder are less “extreme”, since there are fewer ways to increase resistance there for the player.