Diablo 2 vs Diablo 3

I’m convinced most people that praise Diablo 2 as the superior game have never actually played Diablo 3 Reaper of Souls.

Diablo 2 is not harder than Diablo 3. Diablo 3 actually has a scaling endgame which adds an increasing amount of difficulty. Diablo 2 ends at 85.

Diablo 2 has less customization than Diablo 3. Diablo 3 offers more customization, more meaningful character build choices, and a better variety of builds. Diablo 2 has vitality to click on when you level up. Diablo 3 just allocates those points for you.

Diablo 2 has no real end game. Diablo 3 has rifts that randomize encounters and revisit every location and enemy in the game.

Diablo 2 has a Druid and charms. Diablo 3 doesn’t have a Druid or charms.

Original Diablo 2 is disgusting to look at. Diablo 3 should have looked like Path of Exile.

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I can only speak for myself as a HC player. D3’s scaling and 2-4 lives per character actually makes D2 harder because you’re not given the same leeway. For SC I’ll agree, to an extent, but that comes down to itemization which I assume is further down.

Diablo 3, slightly less now since Legacy of Nightmares, has it’s builds HEAVILY dictated by what the sets will support. Diablo 2 at least has the ability for the user to build the build through choice. Based on what D3 has turned into (and you’re stating RoS) the build is dictated by what skills get the 10,000% x 1,000% x 500% x 40% modifier.

Also, to the above, Diablo 2 actually has A LOT of builds because the game has an endpoint difficulty (Hell) whereas in Diablo 3 the infinite scaling begins to clip builds because everyone focuses on GRifts. I personally stop caring after 100-110 because after that it is about the primary stat/defensive (depending on build) grind more than anything which is A LOT of levels.

This depends on what you want. Diablo 3’s end game ends for me once I get Ancients of every items which with the loot acceleration pinata of Torment 16(?) and Grifts scaling above doesn’t take a hell of a lot of time. I just can’t get interested in farming for items (Primal Ancients) and crafting items (augments) that the only difference is 10 stat points. I prefer hunting very rare DIFFERENT items and so D2’s carrot lasts longer for me than D3’s carrot but I can understand people who like the incremental gains that you can constantly work towards in D3 vs. the RNG gains in D2

PoE on launch looked a lot worse unless you’re refering to thematically then sure… but then D2 looks better in the setting department than D3 and PoE imho/

Edit: Not really hating on D3 real either. I think the combat system of D3 is quite good and it is why I’ll probably play some once the new season comes out as the Jade and Arachnyr changes + Soulstone Shards has me interested in playing. Once I eclipse 100 or so though the game just dies too much for me… but that is just my preference of what I want to hunt for.

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If you don’t focus entirely on Reaper of Souls, then Diablo 3 was much harder than Diablo 2. Inferno difficulty was nearly impossible with the horrid drop rates, poor build choices, and mostly resorted to using cheap tactics to progress.

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i have 100s of hours in d3, close to 1000, maybe even more

i’ve played since 2012. almost every season too once they got introduced.

been around since kripps first clear, zilianop fiasco, etc

been playing d2 since 2001. every year, at least one ladder.

d2 is the better game. trading, super in depth mechanics (more than most people realize), better builds, actual pvp, 8 player games, hard to find items, i could go on

with d3 i can be lvl 70 and fully geared with almost bis gear in a day

d2 takes a lot longer than that.

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Wow d3 has more customization than d2? Does everyone not play each season just based off the release of that certain set? Can i equip a sword to wizard and swing that sword to kill act boss? I can do that with sorc, i can also equip a giant a$$ 2 hand sword with amazon and play passive ability only. I can even equip 3 piece of necro set items on pally and play fireball off him if i want to. Can i do any of that with d3? Nope i have to play with whatever dev has decided to give me for the skills that they think is the best for that char. And you want to tell me that d3 has more customization? Like what? 6 different rune for each skill that just alter how it does damage, but you will most likely be using few skills and passive anyways?

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You’d have the time between torment and RoS when I felt D3 was at it’s best. Sure, some of the core annoyances were still there (all damage scales off weapons, etc.) but you could mess around with builds to a great degree because there were so few % changes.

I loved my Dog Sacrifice + Bear build then. Sure, it couldn’t farm T6 ot T10 (forgot which was top) but it could just a couple Torment lower and I never had to touch generators as a WD =)

Diablo 3 has alot of things going for it.
It’s just a clone of D2 though it can never escape that.

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You don’t need best in slot gear to progress beyond Diablo 2’s endgame. Finding best in slot is the entirety of the end game.

Diablo 3 at least offers an endgame with more to chase than best in slot. You are chasing the best in slot with the best rolls in order to make incremental advances in Greater Rifts. This opens up more levels for your gems and the scaling of paragon points.

Both are extremely repetitive but Diablo 3 offers more variety.

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meh i think that comes down to personal taste

my ideal end game is d2s, mfing items to build wealth in runes, making fun off meta builds out of that (bear sorc, ww sin, etc)

for d3, after i hit gr 105 speeds i’m pretty much bored lol

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Each class in Diablo 3 has 5(?) exclusive class sets, multiple varieties of class specific legendary items, as well as a variety of non exclusive legendary items. Diablo 3 also allows you to pick 5 active skills and 4 passives from roughly the similar amounts of selection. You can make your build as unique as you want, it just won’t be very efficient or effective. Which is basically the same as the choosing to play a mediocre version of a Diablo 2 class for the sake of variety.

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Just go back to your arcade game if you like it so much

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Only to a degree though due to the scaling. It might be 100% psychological on my end but since Hell is the most difficult ‘setting’ in D2 as long as I am plowing through I am fine with playing suboptimal builds.

In D3, due to infinite scaling, it is MUCH harder for me to play builds that one would probably classify as “C tier” or worse because of the fact that I could be pushing the envelope more. The new ladder system likely helped with this but I took a Diablo detox maybe one season after those for D2R’s release (last season I played were the follower changes which were BADLY needed and wish they would have come earlier

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what is the difference between a good book and a bad book…?

It’s hard to say, exactly, but it has to do with how it’s structured, composition, and setups and payoffs.
Craftsmanship.

Diablo 3 is atrocious in it’s design on so many levels I’m dumbfounded that anyone actually likes it, beyond the WoW-like graphics.

It cannot be played like the roleplaying game roguelike the Diablo series is supposed to be.
There are no choices, no compromises, in the leveling process.
No choices in the story nor optional parts of the story or maps.

Every monster is a bag of flesh, and every weapon and skill is a knife.
In Diablo 3, you can burn stuff that bathes in flames. You can freeze elemental cold to death. You can poison the unholiest of cursed spiders from the depths of hell. You’d be able to strangle a golem, and electrocute a copper rod, and bleed a mummy to death.
Again absolutely atrocious.

They added runewords to Diablo 2 in the expansion to make sure every tier of items that could drop had a potential use.
White items, blue items, yellow items and uniques.
Every single tier has it’s uses.
Diablo 3 dropped that philosophy entirely, and it’s all about legendaries and sets of the highest tier of items.
Again, just atrocious, coming from the series where you can find items at level 18 that are useful throughout the game, before D3.

There being no difference between a sword-wielding barbarian and a sword-wielding wizard is again atrocious. They both use their weapons to deal area of effect damage.
It’s amazing they stopped short of letting the demon hunter fire arrows with a sword – but the idea of a weapon’s melee damage determining spell damage is exactly that bad.

Cooldowns.
That’s like admitting you have absolutely no idea what so ever what you’re doing when you as a developer add minute long cooldowns for active skills in the diablo universe, and put 10 second cooldowns on basic skills just to force players to cycle through skills.
Diablo 2 introduced casting delays for server-intensive spells, and only had delays long enough to clear some particles.
Some summons have cast delays – because they actually generate and equip gear. Shadow Warrior, Master and Valkyrie generate two magical or rare claws, magical armor, and a magical helmet, that’s invisible apart from the color of the weapons.

There is no reason for cooldowns – it’s like when a writer forces a character to do something because the plot requires them to, and not because it’s in their character.
Cooldowns is season 7 of game of thrones, mechanically.
Your wizard forgot how to cast that spell for the next ten seconds, then he’ll remember again. It’s basically the statement:
‘So sorry, but we don’t know how to balance this stuff so that’s what we did.’
There’s dozens of ways to balance skills and spells:
Prolong the casting time before the spell or skill takes effect.
Force the character to spend time charging up the skill by holding the skill button, unable to take any other action but walking – or running – or be forced to stand still, as balance requires – during that time.
D2 had stamina, but stopped short of actually implementing it as a resource cost.
Which is a shame, it’s a perfect resource cost, though it started out too low, and running should just have stopped stamina regeneration or drained it slowly, not drained it fast.
…stamina makes perfect sense as a secondary resource to balance skills.
Even without stamina, exhaustion as a mechanic can be used to balance powerful skills.
Have an exhaustion meter or only an exhaustion effect, that prevents you from using any powerful skills or lowers the effect for as long as you’re exhausted. Over-casting intensive spells and using powerful skills can cause your character to be too tired to run, and too tired to use even common skills, relying on basic skills to survive while recovering.
Resource cost doesn’t have to be a 1-dimensional axis. You can make it two- or three dimensional. If you use a powerful skill, your mana pool is ‘poisoned’, the top of the pool filled with a dark liquid that takes longer to replace than an empty pool.
Your resource regeneration is hindered. And similarily, some skills can require a sacrifice of mana – mana that is bound to the skill’s effect, and doesn’t regenerate before you unsummon the summon, or the skill duration is exhausted.
Cooldowns is for high caliber automatic weapons in war games and steampunk games, and arcade MMOs and games that don’t try to take mechanics seriously and/or don’t try to make sense from within the game world.

Then there’s the story.
One plays like a spanish soap opera, the other is actually good.
D2, you play to learn the story, and can run straight for Andariel in act 1 skipping every other quest.
D3 is a railroad track through a museum.
Nuff said.

And how difficult is the highest rift levels for an undergeared character?
Literally impossible.
It’s a brick wall that you need to deal “X” damage and have “Y effective health” to pass.

That is not difficulty, that’s having gear checks gatekeeping players.

Diablo 2 can be cleared by naked characters in hardcore – yet most people can’t, because it’s too hard.

Difficulty is based on what can be done through the skill of the player, not what can be done with the correct gear.

There could be written novels on the subject of why Diablo 2 is a great deep and complex game, for it’s time, and how it’s a great roguelike and roleplaying game because of it’s streamlined but fair mechanics – and how Diablo 3 is a polished bad game that in no way is a roguelike nor roleplaying game, with mass appeal not due to quality, but brand recognition and millions of dollars funneled into making it a passable passtime skinner box, with the mechanical depth and complexity of a damp cloth.

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Diablo 2. Max vitality, max resists, + to skills.

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And you already start with being wrong, I played RoS, enjoyed it for what it was but its not D2.

You clearly did not went after Ubers 2/2.

3/3, more meaningful character choices? LOL

Who cares about rifts? They are boring AF, try and make an Uber killer, that’s the enmdgame here. Also if you really want to try an arpg with real meaty endgame, PoE is the only one that provide that.

You clearly have terrible taste, it still look good even after allk these years, it look dated for sure.

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Who cares about random generated content when you could play the same exact content? Okay.

d3. no stats, look up meta build, run the same rifts and grifts lol

also,

d2 has max block where you stat dex,

energy shield where you stat energy

etc

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Diablo 2 look up stat build. Realize it’s breakpoints and max vitality. Run the same exact maps.

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Also before “no one does that” relatively popular stat allocationf or Summonmancers is to Dex + Shield to max block. Also that shield is debated on Spirit vs. Humon vs. Forgot 3rd

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Max dexterity to find the breakpoint for 75% chance to block, okay.