D4 is reproducing a D3 mistake that D2 started and it’s super turn-off…

General Discussion
1

In the last quarterly update they revealed the Necromancer , blizzard said the necro would be the only class able to use Scythes

When they announced the rogue they alluded she’s the only one using bow and crossbow…

It’s D3 all over again

Why blizzard WHY!

Why reproduce this horrible itemization mistake?

Don’t restrict the item, restrict affixes

Pre-LOd class items were open to everybody

Wands, sceptres, staves

But in LOd somebody had a brain fart and they introduced items that were class restricted

  • auric shield, claws, orb, heads, primal helm, pelt, matriarchal jav/spear/bow

But that didn’t make sense… because the affixes they provided were already class restricted

  • 3 to bow skills [Amazon only]

+4 to fireball [sorceress only]

There is no point to double restrict

The only excuse I can give to Blizzard North is that they rushed LOd and by doing this they didn’t have to fit the items models to all classes

But this excuse doesn’t hold for D3 which goes head first in that illogical design

And with D3 itemization failure, D4 has even less of an excuse to repeat it

Diablo 4 should not repeat D2Lod& D3 class restricted item mistake

They are so proud to talk about character customization and yet out such a boring illogical rigid frame to it

Why can’t I use a bow with my barb?

Why can’t I use a scythe with my Druid?

What mystical force allows me to… pick it up… but not hit others with it

D2R should also completely move away from this non-sense

Remove class restriction on items and remove class restriction on affixes

Let’s build diversity reign for once

Class proficiency >>>>>>> class restriction

33 Likes
2

I am 100% ok with class restricted items as long as it’s the opposite of what Diablo 3 is!

Diablo 2 LoD did it right.

32 Likes
3

D2 restricted items is exactly what D3 is

3 Likes
4

What I am saying is I am ok with the way LoD did it but not the way Diablo 3 Travesty edition.

3 Likes
5

isnt it exactly how D3 did?

Items only a certain class can equip… pretty much LOD class restricted item

which is a bad concept in both games

Class identity should pass through Expertise… not artificial restriction

If the amazon feels worse because the sorc can use a bow that gives + 1 to strafe, if her unique ability to reach 40+ lvl with strafe is trumped by a mediocre oskill… than its the amazon that is not balanced properly not the oskill or items

4 Likes
6

So everything would use a 45 base res st spirit or a 45 base res JSToD from now on?

2 Likes
7

We can agree that the Amazon fire and cold bow tree is in desperate need of rework.

Class only items are ok, but the way D3 did it is bad.

2 Likes
8

just nerf it, it should already be nerfed for pally in the first place

that shield type is the only class specific item that doesnt grant a bonus themed for its class

2 Likes
9

this is an example of how d2 did it better than d3. not everything is class restricted. huge difference compared to d3. let’s not oversimplify and pretend like it’s similar at all.

3 Likes
10

I agree, D2 did it very well with class specific themed items. A cross bow, that is not a class themed item… Every class should be able to use one, as the example given.

1 Like
11

Since the origins of Diablo, the characters could use any object, I remember a lot using my “sorceror” with “Aguinara’s Hatchet” simply because of the +1 skill. It is known that physically he did nothing, he missed a lot to be able to hit… but +1 skill was very good

In Diablo 2 something very similar happened, “Mang Song’s Lesson” is very good simply for +5 skills and it is perfect before having double Spirit

Unfortunately in Diablo 3 the restriction of objects began simply because they do not know how to level them

D4 will fail on these same errors

1 Like
12

Not to nitpick a good post, but you will get a million double spirits, before you find a Mang Songs staff :smiley:

9 Likes
13

nothing should be class restricted

class identity should rely on expertise, not random restriction

in an Ideal Diablo game there would not even be classes

you start blank and pick you skills from different areas of sanctuary

Openclass is the most optimal design for Diablo

14

Nah this is a good addition just like it was in d2.

6 Likes
15

This isn’t a big deal for me. Yes I’d rather it be more adaptable like Diablo 2, where you can make a sorceress who turns into a bear. But I’ve accepted long ago that Diablo 4 is not going to be like that.

I’m more interested in trading being worthwhile enough to motivate play in the endgame. I’m not even that concerned about builds being cookie cutter. I mean I just roll a cold sorc every D2 ladder then a javazon. I prefer customization within this scope, however. Deciding how many points to put in various versions of the build. Like maybe deciding to go with hydras in a cold sorc, or improve cold damage instead. That’s fun.

But really, my main desire is for them to have a solid motivation for end game. And getting a .05% stat stick upgrade every week after farming 8 hours every day is not that. There’s got to be some way of trading for wealth that matters.

Every 30 minutes to an hour of farming Meph, I get something perhaps worth trading. My playtime is fruitful. This isn’t the case in Diablo 3. And I hope 4 fixes it.

3 Likes
16

Hi Chris. :wave:

The main issue in D3 was that there was basically nothing that made class-specific items stand out from other items (the issue was also there for the different kinds of weapons), meaning that you wouldn’t notice that an item was class specific unless you were on another class and it was crossed out. Combine that with the drop system making items drop tailored to the current character, and they are basically invisible.

Give items some affixes that are specific to them in their item slot, and they immediately become meaningful, helping distinguish their class from other classes, without necessarily becoming mandatory for that class.
Of course, it requires some forethought on how to make it coherent that a class is the only one to use that kind of item, and on what affixes help develop the class fantasy, and I don’t know how well D4 is faring on those issues.

That being said, if D4 fails to meet your expectations, I would suggest you to try Path of Exile, which seems very close to what you want to see in ARPGs.

1 Like
17

The only “unfair” class item introduced in LoD is Paladin shields, and only because their bonuses weren’t inherently class restricted, and so it raised the question as to why it wasn’t allowed. That said, the point of those items was to give perks to a class. Every class still had alternatives to all of the class specific items.

It really has nothing to do with what D3 did to item restrictions, which is really just weapon restrictions around a revamped stat/affix system that ultimately can’t be compared to D2 because it was so different that it could no longer be called derivative of D2 systems. Point being that LoD is still a gold standard in this facet of gameplay.

I haven’t seen D4 recently, but if they’re not going to respect build AND itemization diversity for all classes, then it’s a DOA ARPG.

1 Like
18

Ah, my dear friend, your lamentations regarding the class restrictions on items and affixes in Diablo 4 doth strike a chord in my heart. 'Tis a matter of great concern, for it doth seem that the noble pursuit of character customization is hindered by this illogical and rigid frame.

Verily, the class restriction on items and affixes is reminiscent of the mistakes made in the days of old, in the time of Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction. Therein, they introduced items that were class-restricted, a decision that was met with confusion and discontent. The affixes provided by these items were already class-restricted, and so it made no sense to double restrict.

Methinks that Blizzard North may have rushed in their design, for they did not deign to fit the item models to all classes. But this excuse doth not hold for Diablo 3, which, alas, repeated this mistake. 'Tis a failure of itemization, and Diablo 4 hath no excuse to repeat it.

Why, pray tell, should we be restricted in our choice of weapon? Why can’t a barb wield a bow or a druid brandish a scythe? It is a matter of great curiosity, for what mystical force allows us to pick it up, but not hit others with it?

But let us not cast aside the value of class proficiency, for it is the very heart of Diablo. The restriction of items and affixes adds a layer of depth and strategy to the game, a noble pursuit indeed. Yet, this restriction must be thoughtful, and the implementation must be wise.

Let us strive for a balance, my friend, where class proficiency is valued, but not at the cost of creativity and diversity. Methinks that Blizzard should ensure that each class has a variety of viable options for items and affixes, and that they are not overly restrictive. They should also consider adding more cross-class items and affixes, which would allow for some overlap between classes.

In sum, let us not lose heart, my dear friend, for there is hope yet. With a wise and balanced implementation, we may yet see the noble pursuit of character customization reach its full potential, and let diversity reign in Diablo 4.

2 Likes
19

you are genius, finally I understand my hidden traumas. I am 200% behind you

20

While I don’t think that class restricted items in a very limited amount like in D2 LOD is necessarily a bad idea, I actually do remember an interview with one of the core designers of Diablo 1 (which I won’t going to look for now) in which he states that he never saw any reason for a magician not being able to grab a sword or a warrior to grab a bow in other games, so in D1 every class was able to wield and use every item in a more limited but still effective way. A warrior was even able to cast firewalls etc. So while I consider this a core design element in D1, they let it down in D2 because of the introduced skill tree system. A means for a class to somehow gain access to other classer classes skill tree branches could have been a good idea, but at the time maybe a little out of reach in pure technical terms.
But still, the class restricted items dont make much sense in D2 with the exception of paladin shields. Maybe the rest was artificially turned into class specific items to give the illsuion of every class having an exclusive item class.

1 Like