D2R Proposal 1 - Bone Spirit Magi Army

General Discussion
1

This proposal has 2 variations:

  • Variation A: Skeletal Mages now cast your Bone Spirit for free // Crazy
  • Variation B: All Magi now cast a Level 5 Bone Spirit (Not yours) // Balanced

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Variation A: Skeletal Mages now cast your Bone Spirit for free

4K Poster

https://i.ibb.co/FzQSdmQ/d2r-proposal-1-bone-spirit-magi-army.jpg

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D2 Planner

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/sk010okq

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Rak’Shir

Belt
“Against / To X” becomes “From X minions”
+75% damage to Beasts / Undead
+10% to Attack Rating against Beasts / Undead

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Bonesoul

Ring
Skeletal Mages now cast your Bone Spirit for free
+15% Bone Spirit damage
+1 to Bone Skills

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Army of the Magi

Ring
Raise Skeleton / Revive Uncastable
Max Skeletons / Monsters added to Max Magi
+25% Skeletal Mage damage
+1 to Summon Resist

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Explainer

  • Fantasy: Bone Spirit Magi Army
  • Best attributes: Damage to Undead, Attack Rating against Undead, +X to Skills / Necro Skills / Skeleton Mastery / Curses / …etc.
  • Gameplay: Lower Resist + Skeletal Mages
  • Rak’Shir: Converts « against / to » into « from » (minions only). Beasts for Druid, Undead for Necromancer.
  • Bonesoul: Bone Spirit cast by magi benefits all magi’s bonuses.
  • Army of the Magi: Max Warriors / Revived added to Max Mages.
  • Bone Spirit: Magic attack. Pure Magic attack. Unaffected by Magic Resistance (aka All Elemental Resist).
  • Skeleton Mastery: Magi Health. Improved Missile.
  • Raise Skeletal Mage: Magi Health. Magi Units (3 points = 1 unit).
  • Raise Skeleton: Additional Magi Units (3 points = 1 unit).
  • Revive: Additional Magi units (1 point = 1 unit)
  • Summon Resist: Magi Resist.
  • Items: Voice of Reason, Goulhide, Chains of Honor.

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Variation B: All Magi now cast a Level 5 Bone Spirit (Not yours)

4K Poster

https://i.ibb.co/FHdGcf1/d2r-proposal-1-bone-spirit-magi-army.jpg

–

D2 Planner

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/3l01ko6c

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Rak’Shir

Belt
“Against / To X” becomes “From X minions”
+75% damage to Beasts / Undead
+10% to Attack Rating against Beasts / Undead

–

Bonesoul

Ring
All Magi now cast a Level 5 Bone Spirit (Not yours)
+1 to Skeleton Mastery
+1 to Summon Resist

–

Army of the Magi

Ring
Raise Skeleton / Revive Uncastable
Max Skeletons / Monsters added to Max Magi
+25% Skeletal Mage damage
+1 to Revive

–

Explainer

  • Fantasy: Bone Spirit Magi Army
  • Best attributes: Damage to Undead, Attack Rating against Undead, +X to Skills / Necro Skills / Skeleton Mastery / Curses / …etc.
  • Gameplay: Skeletal Mages, Bone Prison for map control
  • Rak’Shir: Converts « against / to » into « from » (minions only). Beasts for Druid, Undead for Necromancer.
  • Bonesoul: Bone Spirit is a Pure Magic attack, unaffected by Magic
  • Resistance (aka All Elemental Resist). Your Bone Spirit does not enhance this pet missile. Rak’Shir is the way to go. Bone Spirit cast by Magi benefits all Magi bonuses (Damage, IAS).
  • Army of the Magi: Max Warriors / Revived added to Max Mages.
  • Skeleton Mastery: Magi Health + Damage (Improved Missile).
  • Raise Skeletal Mage: Magi Health + Damage. Magi Units (3 points = 1 unit).
  • Raise Skeleton: Additional Magi Units (3 points = 1 unit).
  • Revive: Additional Magi units (1 point = 1 unit)
  • Summon Resist: Magi Resist.
  • Items: Voice of Reason, Goulhide, Chains of Honor.

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Inspiration

Starcraft 2 - Rakshir

The common edict of Rak’Shir was “defeat your masters, or fall beneath them.”

https://starcraft.fandom.com/wiki/Rak%27Shir

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Diablo 2 - Bone Spirit

Bone Spirit cannot attack multiple enemies

https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Bone_Spirit_(Diablo_II)

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Magic Resistant (Diablo II)

Elemental attacks will be quite ineffective against these monsters. Seek out physical, poisonous, or pure magic attacks (such as Bone Spear or Bone Spirit).

Oddly, this attribute does not render the monster resistant to actual magic. So your pure magic attacks will still work. (Necromancers rejoice!)

=> Bone Spirit is Pure Magic: It is unaffected by Magic Resistance (aka All Elemental Resistance = Cold, Fire, Poison)

https://diablo-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Magic_Resistant_(Diablo_II)

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Lower Resist

Lower Resist lowers the targets’ resistance to Fire, Lightning, Cold, and Poison; Lower Resist does not affect magical damage.

=> Bone Spirit is Pure Magic: It is unaffected by Magic Resistance (aka All Elemental Resistance = Cold, Fire, Poison)

https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Lower_Resist

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Other Proposals
https://diablo-proposals.web.app/

3 Likes
2

I approve, hope Blizzard considers as well. :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like
3

Apparently, Bone Spirit is a Pure Magic Attack which is unaffected by Magic Resistance (aka All Elemental Resistance = Cold, Fire, Poison).

I updated the poster and the planner.

The best strategy is now to maximize Revive (1 point = 1 Magi) and every Synergy for Bone Spirit (Teeth, Bone Spear, Bone Wall, Bone Prison) with 1 point into Summon Resist and Skeleton Mastery so the Magi stay solid.

4

if i got it right
you want to walk around with over 65 necromages casting Bspirit?

1 Like
5

65 necromage casting bone spirit, yes plz!

1 Like
6

While it’s possible to raise a gigantic Magi Army, it’s actually stronger to raise less Magi (0+15=>7 from Raise Skeleton, 0+15=>7 from Raise Skeletal mage, 20+14=>34 from Revive = 48 Magi) and spend most of the points into Bone Spirit synergies (1 point in Teeth, Bone Spear, Bone Wall or Bone Prison = +8% Bone Spirit damage).

The reason is the point efficiency.
3 points to get +1 unit doesn’t increase much your total damage.
On the other hand, 3 points x 8% = +24% Bone Spirit damage.

The damage-oriented strategy is:

  1. Maximize Revive (great point efficiency, 1 point = 1 unit)
  2. Maximize Bone Spirit and its synergies (good point efficiency, 1 point = +8% Bone Spirit damage)
  3. One point into Summon Resist
  4. Bonus points from items to complete the build
7

first i need to ask
are you suggesting

  • that our synergies should also increase necromage dmg?
    or
  • that its better to invest in Bspirit for yourself than getting another 17
    necromages casting Bspirit?
1 Like
8

Bone Spirit synergies increase the damage of your Bone Spirit.

Magi now cast your Bone Spirit for free.

The proposal has been fixed, so it’s clearer.

In addition:

Improved Missile from Skeleton Mastery applies to the Bone Spirit they cast.

Every bonus gained by Skeletal Mage applies to their missile, which is now Bone Spirit (Ex: +25% Skeletal Mage Damage grants +25% Damage to the Bone Spirit they cast)

With the precision given in the first paragraph, let’s rewrite your question:

are you suggesting its better to invest in Bspirit for yourself than getting another 17
necromages casting your Bspirit?

48 Magi x 3587 Bone Spirit Damage = 172 176 Total Bone Spirit damage
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/sk010okq

60 Magi x 1635 Bone Spirit Damage = 98 100 Total Bone Spirit damage
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/n2018oe7

Let me know if you feel this is overpowered and the Magi should only cast a basic, weak version of Bone Spirit, and their main damage increase should come from Rak’Shir ?

9

oh, no doubt it is completely OP
but numbers can be easily tweaked
so thats not my bigggest concern

so, instead of
“Magi now cast bone spirit instead of their original skills”
you went with
“Magi now cast your bone spirit for free”

which makes me understand that necromages will cast your bone spirit with all its synergies every time you cast it too

if thats the case
there are some problems
1- there is no IA in the game that does x once we do y, so we would need a completely new one
2- minions have their own attack dictated by its own file, so we would need a new function to make then use ours instead of one assign to them
3- currently necromages dont cast anything, the elemental missiles they use are like basic attacks to them, thats the reason they are affected by eIAS
4- if your plan is to make them release your Bspirit instantly once you cast it you gonna need to overwrite the fixed 15frame delay in between animations, or save the action for when the 15frame delay is over

please correct me im wrong about anything

in the end, i think its a lot of work to make one skill viable

1 Like
10

Nope.

While it could be a thing in terms of gameplay (like “Magi replicate your Bone Spirit”), there is no synchronization involved in this proposal.

“Your Bone Spirit” simply means the player can improve the damage of Skeletal Mage’s Bone Spirit by investing points in the Skill tree.

Skeletal Mages are autonomous in casting Bone Spirit.

There is a possibility to balance the numbers by using this description:

Magi now cast a Level 1 Bone Spirit.

The problem is, Bone Spirit Level 1 deals [20-30] damage so 25 on average.

VS other Level 1 elemental missiles:

  • Poison - Damage per Second: 48
  • Cold - Damage per Second: 86
  • Fire - Damage per Second: 113
  • Lightning - Damage per Second: 106

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/ar01ko0d

In order to be competitive, the proper Level of Bone Spirit should do Bone Spirit damage in the Tree minus the synergies to reach Bone Spirit (as the Magi no longer use your synergies in this hypothesis), which means -8% for Teeth and -8% for Bone Spear, so -16%, so 1-16% = x0.84.

The adequate Level of Bone Spirit is then Bone Spirit Level 5, dealing [116-133] damage, which means (116+133)/2*0.84 = 105

Which is on par with Fire & Lightning Mages, considering this Bone Spirit missile will follow the same rule of improvement as other missiles (if points are invested in Raise Skeletal Mage and Skeleton Mastery)

The proposal could be changed to:

Magi now cast a Level 5 Bone Spirit.

https://i.ibb.co/FHdGcf1/d2r-proposal-1-bone-spirit-magi-army.jpg

Since Skeletal Mage’s Bone Spirit can no longer synergize with player’s Bone Spirit tree, the only advantage now for this missile is to be unaffected by Elemental Resistances (it is simply a Sundering missile for Skeletal Mage).

Following this rule, most the points now have to be spent into:

  1. Revive
  2. Raise Skeletal Mage
  3. Raise Skeleton
  4. Skeleton Mastery
  5. Summon Resist

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/3l01ko6c

Few skill points will remain at the discretion of the player, to customize the playstyle (Ex: Bone Armor, Bone Prison, Life Tap, …etc.).

I updated the main post with:

  • Variation A: Skeletal Mages now cast your Bone Spirit for free
  • Variation B: All Magi now cast a Level 5 Bone Spirit (Not yours)

Variation B is obviously the most balanced of the two variations.

11

Sounds like D3/D4 I don’t like it.

12

How ?

In D3/D4, there is no such thing as 60+ Magi Army, nor Bone Spirit cast by Magi, nor inverting item properties to gain minions power.

Everything is this proposal is brand new to the Diablo Universe.

13

Just make Summon-Bone hybrid if you need magic damage. With maxed Bone Spirit and Bone Wall you will deal ~2k, pretty low but enough to solo kill average monster and CE the rest. I used it when I had no teleport and had to protect myself when Arm of Leoric grabbed me. You guys always try to find hard solutions for simple problems. All that skeleton mages need are 2x damage and health buffs. And fix for Pnova/Pmage dmg which replaces each other. Bone spirit mages, lol. They will be annoying af in pvp.

14

THAT sounds like D3.
Why not +9999% increased damage lol ?

Nope, players want depth.
BG3 Case law.

15

Because now their damage is beyond pathetic, and this will make them noticeable option. How do you know what players want? Players ≠ you.

16

great, now i understand exactly what youre proposing

you dont really need to set Bspirit lvl on stone
the skill lvl of the missile released by necromages is dicted by a formula that uses skeleton mastery and raise skeleton mage skill lvl as base

for reference
necromages are going to “cast” lvl 69 Bspirit if your skeleton mastery is lvl 48 and raise skeleton mages is lvl 45
and
are going to “cast” lvl 5 bone spirit if your skeleton mastery is lvl 3 and raise skeleton mages is lvl 7

not really
in d3, “embodiment of the marauder” is a demon hunter set that makes your sentrys cast your hatred spenders
but even with this being the case, i dont think this disquilifies the suggestion

the biggest necro problem is that almost everything is made towards CE

pvp already make its own rules
they can make another one

17

Oh, I didn’t know, thanks for the clarification. :+1:

Agree.

I’m not a PvP expert, so I am open to suggestions.

1 Like
18

I’d say that all pnb tree is a problem. Bone abilities rely on synergies too much, you have to minmax everything to get decent damage. Poison necros need to spend 40 points in poison dagger and explosion which they will never use. Also CE loses most of it’s power with higher player count. I see mages as an alternative for summon necros that will help skeleton warriors kill monsters with high physical resistance faster, but they are too weak in their current state to be useful.

2 Likes
19

i totally agree with this

i would say its subpar when we compare it to the aoe and dmg of blessed hammers

yeah, Pdagger needs some changes
but i see no problem with the amount of synergies Pnova has
2 is fine, more than that is problematic

CE performance isnt the problem
it has the same dps of a nova sorce full endgame gear, ofc only when you have enough corpses
its great skill for basically no investment and thats its problem
its too good and could use a nerf and lvl scaling so it could reach the former dps but now with investment

yeah…and i agree with you that doubling their dmg would fix most of their problems
with missile spd and poison mage needing further improvements

or we can go with the OP suggestion and give them Bspirit but without the part of RS and Revive counting towards necromage max minions

1 Like
20

Why ?
Don’t you like the idea of having 60+ Skeletal Mages ?