It sure seems that a lot of people’s objections to changing/updating D2R is that they don’t want it to “become D3”. So now I ask you, what are the actual problems with D3? Here are the typical complaints I see, in no particular order:
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The story sucks: Sure thing, but this is completely irrelevant to D2. Any “upgrades” to D2 wouldn’t suddenly include having Cain killed by some anthropomorphized butterfly.
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Cartoony graphics: Sure thing, but this is also completely irrelevant to D2. Any “upgrades” to D2 wouldn’t make the Durance of Hate suddenly look like Whimsydale (which was added to D3 as a joke anyway, precisely because so many people complained about D3 not being “dark” enough compared to D2).
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Easy loot: Sure thing, but this is also completely irrelevant to D2. Sure, some people are demanding better drop rates, but I haven’t seen anyone seriously demand that runes or “uniques” (in air quotes because D3 decided to call them “legendaries” thanks to the frequency with which they dropped) suddenly rain down non-stop like they do in D3.
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Bad/uninspired/easy talent system: Sure thing, but this is also completely irrelevant to D2. Sure, some people are asking for easier ways to respec, but I haven’t seen anyone seriously demand that everyone be able to swap talents on the fly in the same way you can in D3.
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Overemphasis on set items: Sure thing, but the same problem happens in D2, just in a different way. It’s totally true that D3 focused entirely too much on sets, effectively funneling people to the same builds over and over, but D2 does the exact same thing (though not via sets), as evidenced by the fact that any “popular”/efficient/Hell-capable builds rely on the same gear and talents. In D2 you simply are not free to experiment and come up with wildly different builds from what has already been established as the best (or rather only) ways to succeed, contrary to what a lot of people here seem to think. If you don’t follow a build guide to the letter, you will effectively never be able to clear Hell on your own–or maybe even Nightmare.
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Too easy: Sure thing, but this is also true of D2. Once you have the right gear, you will be killing the same bosses over and over ad infinitum until you either get better rolls on the gear you already have, or are able to trade whatever loot you find for said upgrades. I see entirely too many people on these forums under the demonstrably false impression that D2 is somehow a complex or difficult game. It is not at all. The only “difficult” part is waiting/hoping for the right loot to drop, which is entirely dependent on RNG (same as D3). The whole “endgame” in D2 consists of killing the same uniques/bosses in minutes, only to make a new game to rinse and repeat.
I can keep going, but this is already a pretty substantial wall of text as is. So yeah, I invite anyone and everyone to list whatever complaints about D3 they might have, and I’ll try my best to point out that they are either irrelevant to D2, or that D2 already has the same problems in one form or another.
One of the main problems I see on the forums is a thorough lack of imagination. I simply want more people to realize that this game is far from perfect and that we should all be willing to embrace change, provided it is done well.
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D3 is awesome. The story does suck though. Should be called “rift grinder 2000”
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“grift rinder 2000” blizzard attempted grifting a few years before it was acceptable. their RMT auction house was 2 years too early
I play and enjoy both 2 and 3. They’re very, very different games with different focuses on progression and wildly different combat. Overall I like D2 more, but D3 is a very fun game in its own right.
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Really the only problem is you can play it by buying D3, so buying D2 should be the way you play D2 instead of being the second way you play D3.
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Totally true, but at least rifts in D3 are quasi-randomized, never mind that greater rifts scale in “difficulty” such that you always have an incentive to find better gear (or continue to upgrade whatever gear you already have).
D2’s “endgame”, on the other hand, is all about killing Baal/Meph/Andy/Pindle/whatever as fast as possible then doing it again, hundreds or thousands of times. This really is no different from D3’s grind, and is arguably way simpler.
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the thing is: people have 0 faith in blizzard’s ‘creativity’ anymore. its like whatever they touch dies horribly recently. There was once a time when bliz announce something new ppl would wonder ‘wow i wonder what interesting thing they have come up with now, really cant wait to see it.’ And that time is LONG GONE.
so please allow ppl to enjoy this blast from the past in peace and i sincerely hope bliz just keep it as what it is, just a graphic overhaul will suffice.
my take regarding d3:
-why create so many skills and then only limit ppl to use only a handful of it? the attempt to dissect a game just so it would allow it to be ported to console has dulled its gameplay to very low and no flexibility
-every season the dev dictates what spec ppl have to play in order to excel. if u dont like the spec the dev buffs u are fresh out of luck, prepare to get vote kicked from any group that wants to do anything serious. i cant even play the spec that i liked, lol. this just goes to show that the devs are actually not a gamer, just a bunch of code writer. if they are gamer themselves it is just natural that they would know this, but year after year this has not shown to be so.
I think it’s rather disingenuous to claim that D3 still relegates a small fraction of skills to builds anymore. This was a common complaint when RoS was relatively new and has become much less of an issue anymore. Nowadays every class in D3 has a strong build for every playstyle they offer. Are they all able to push the highest GRs? No, but it’s a lot better than it used to be. And besides, even back in D2 not every class build could clear Hell content without being carried online. Don’t even pretend that D2 was some super flexible and nice build enabler. If anything, it’s much more strict than D3 is.
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I think overall people like how D2 plays out with it’s design and character and flow. Lots of the changes people ask for would take away from those elements for the people in question. The problem with your initial list of objections is they are general reasons people don’t like D3…not specific reasons why specific changes would ruin D2 for some.
on the note of comparing endgame: I still don’t get tired of D2 endgame, but then again, I don’t rush a sorc to max level and farm baal till I puke. I run cows, or pits, or a few other places. Or If I get bored, I run some random area that I haven’t done in awhile. It’s interesting to me.
The “randomizer” of D3 rifts gets very old very fast, and it’s all you can do at end game. I can’t hop into act 2 in D3 and farm. You just won’t get anything to progress. But in D2 I can get a shako or a reaper’s toll off of any random mob in any act.
Or I can run bosses for a higher chance. or I can pick specific mobs that have a better chance to drop certain item groups. I can pick where I want to farm. It’s a difference that I can feel right away.
I can play D3 rifts for about a week before getting bored. I can play D2 for years and still enjoy it.
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I’m not one to jump in to this whole D2 vs D3, but I feel I need to correct your last two points, especially since they tie-in together.
The game in Hell is fairly difficult. Especially if you aren’t well prepared for it. You can’t just run into large groups and spam skills. You will die. You have to have a certain mindset, and generally you have to be geared up well enough to survive. Many guides have “cookie cutter” builds that are very efficient, and optimized. That doesn’t mean you have to follow them to the letter or anything close to it. Lightning Sorcs can use Nova instead on Lightning & Chain Chain Lightning. Is it going to be as good? No, not even close. Is it viable? Yes, absolutely. This sort of thing is true for many builds. Plus many builds have several variations so things aren’t exactly “cookie cutter” either. Just felt those things, in particular, needed clarifying.
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i agree with this point. It’s far to easy to generalize and assume that everyone wading through Hell has an enigma and max gear. Most players are struggling to get their resist high enough to even survive. And even with decent builds, if you zig when you should have zagged you die before you can even know what killed you.
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I guess I should clarify: I’m not arguing that D2 should actually become D3; that would simply be boring and shortsighted.
I’m rather saying that it’s OK to acknowledge that D3 did make some “mechanical” improvements to the formula, which D2 could at least borrow as a baseline to take the game in a fresh direction, the end result being way better than both D2 and D3.
D2R won’t last very long if they stick to the same stagnant formula that everyone is already familiar with (and tired of). Sure, the improved graphics did bring a lot of the original crowd back for a bit, but by the end of LoD most people were playing mods anyway. The nostalgia factor won’t last long if they don’t something to freshen the experience.
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I’m actually hoping that they do some interesting things with Ladder that the OG D2 never did. Something similar to the seasons in PoE and D3. I mean they already gave us access to previously ladder-only gear, so implementing it as it originally was would be a huge wasted opportunity IMO.
The fact that your characters won’t auto delete after not playing the game for a bit will be a BIG thing keeping people coming back. They won’t have to worry about losing everything. There’s a reason D2 has had a higher player base than D3 for awhile now. It’ll probably never be a booming game, but it could easily continue going strong for years if they get the servers fixed and add in a few more QoL things. If they manage to give us enough stash space for people to do Grail Characters, that’ll keep people playing on and off for a really long time. And that will lead people to doing things besides their Grail stuff.
But this is true of D3 as well. You can’t just waltz in and smash your head against the keyboard to clear a sufficiently high grift. At that point even white mobs will one-shot you if you’re not careful. Plus, given the “randomness” of the rift, you have to judge how best to group up mobs, time your attacks correctly to maximize damage, etc. Sure, the leader boards are always populated by people who bot big time (or are fed gear), but this is also true in D2. Once you get to a sufficiently high grift, however, a lot of strategy and planning goes into being able to clear it.
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It’s fine as an arcadey kind of game, but not a diablo game.
Exactly. Point out a problem with D3 and D2 has the exact same problem, albeit in a different coat of paint. At their cores they’re the same: Grind for tons of hours to create the perfect character. The only difference is the method they use for their grind.
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One thing D3 did right and D2 did wrong is the ability to clear any content no matter which element you chose. If I play a sorc, I better be ready to beg for help clearing some content, because those hard immunities require Infinity to break, without it you might as well have no gear at all.
Just so we’re clear on how dumb this is… Infinity requires 2 ber runes, 1 ist and 1 mal to make. If you only like the lightning sorc you’re out of luck until you’re near the end of the ladder season.
D3 is garbage due to the core mechanics.
The entire system around cooldowns on spells and cooldownreduction was just a cashgrab to get as many wow players as possible to play d3.
In addition to that they changed the game in a terrible direction. In D2 or PoE you have a build hierarchy so starter builds - budget builds - expensive builds - very expensive builds which use different spells and have a different playstyle so as you progress trough the game you “unlock” new builds by looted or trading the needed items. In D3 you decide for a build, play 3-4 hours to get the core items in normal quality and at that point your build or playstyle will never change again so D3 is straightup boring cause there isnt any character progression (no getting the same item with higher stats isnt a charcater progression cause you already got that item).
And last but not least : D3 is designed for bots. Even more than D2 or PoE. In D2 its enough to be lucky and get like 4-5 BER runes to have a almost perfect character cause for most builds it doesnt matter that much if you are lvl85 or lvl99. In D3 your lucky drops are mostly worthless cause if you dont have 6000 botted paragon level it doesnt matter if you have perfect primal items in all slots cause you are missing on thousands of mainstat points.
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I can agree with this. If you take D3 as it is, it’s a great game. It’s not the successor to d2 that many d2 fans wanted, but to be honest, I found that love in other games as well, like PoE and Grim Dawn. And D2:R of course.
And I always felt since they announced this project that it would be the perfect time to also deal with many of the inequities that old D2 had but never got changed, such as some class balance. They would have to approach this very carefully, since it would be easy to step on the toes of some builds when doing this, but It seem very logical as the next step for D2: How to balance the game and add QoL while keeping the essence of D2 the same.
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