Community Feedback for Improving Itemization

General Discussion
1207

Good catch. A level 13 grizzly is worthless, can we atleast strengthen charges to be useable?..

Beast
Ber Tir Um Mal Lum
Required Level: 63
Axes, Scepters, Hammers
Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+240-270% Enhanced Damage
+20% Chance of Crushing Blow
+25% Chance of Open Wounds
+3 To Werebear
+3 To Lycanthropy
Prevent Monster Heal
+25-40 To Strength
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Change Grizzly Level to 26

True. I guess we could discuss expanding exceptional voodoo heads to 3 max sockets and elite to 4 max sockets as shown below…

Max Sockets Current Improved
Bone Knife 1 2
Mithril Point 1 2
Tomahawk 2 3
Truncheon 2 3
Walking Stick 2 3
Stalagmite 3 4
Ogre Axe 3 4
Hyperion Spear 3 4
Feral Axe 4 5
Legendary Mallet 4 5
Scourge 5 6
Mummified Trophy 2 3
Fetish Trophy 2 3
Sexton Trophy 2 3
Cantor Trophy 2 3
Hierophant Troph 2 3
Minion Skull 2 4
Overseer Skull 2 4
Hellspawn Skull 2 4
Succubus Skull 2 4
Bloodlord Skull 2 4
2 Likes
1208

Your proposal is even more generous than mine making all elite necromancer bases candidates for spirit. I just hope I don’t have to argue about perfect basis probability for spirit in this case.

I think the addition of +3 to Maul for beast is excellent

2 Likes
1209

amazing man ! It would be incredible if Blizzard hired you !
We need someone like you at Blizzard who listens to what we have to say.

1 Like
1210

Agreed. But Beast is already at the attribute limit of 12, so can’t add anything else and can’t take anything away without changing runes, which is a no-go. Only option really is to replace +3 to Lycanthropy with +3 to Maul?

1 Like
1211

I think the weapon was made like this to benefit 2 types of builds werewolf and werebear, if you remove one of them I think it can become werebear only, and currently the werebear and werewolf builds use breath of the dying in the endgame. I think it would be better to leave it the way it is, unless you ask them to make a base that has +3 maul skill in the implicit, like amazon bows.

1 Like
1212

Rune Staff base with +3 to maul or archon staff

1213

Agreed, I think the runeword should just have grizzly buff and that’s it.

In addition to voodoo heads, exceptional and elite throwing knives and throwing axes (not javelins) should have 1 and only 1 socket as shown below…

Max Sockets Current Improved
Battle Dart 0 1
War Dart 0 1
Francisca 0 1
Hurlbat 0 1
Francisca 0 1
Flying Knife 0 1
Winged Knife 0 1
Flying Axe 0 1
Winged Axe 0 1
Poignard 1 2
Bone Knife 1 2
Rondel 1 2
Mithril Point 1 2
Hatchet 2 3
Tomahawk 2 3
Cudgel 2 3
Truncheon 2 3
Jo Staff 2 3
Walking Stick 2 3
Quarterstaff 3 4
Stalagmite 3 4
Lochaber Axe 3 4
Ogre Axe 3 4
War Spear 3 4
Hyperion Spear 3 4
Military Axe 4 5
Feral Axe 4 5
Battle Hammer 4 5
Legendary Mallet 4 5
Knout 5 6
Scourge 5 6
Mummified Trophy 2 3
Fetish Trophy 2 3
Sexton Trophy 2 3
Cantor Trophy 2 3
Hierophant Troph 2 3
Minion Skull 2 4
Overseer Skull 2 4
Hellspawn Skull 2 4
Succubus Skull 2 4
Bloodlord Skull 2 4
3 Likes
1214

As there can be an assassin that destroys the entire screen in 2 seconds, and while a melee build takes 2 seconds + to kill 1 elite dude, depending on your modifiers.
Then some rebel in life who only plays skill spells (sorc) will come and defend his point of view or an RMT player in life who buys the assassin already built, will say: ‘‘Surprise, you’re jealous of the strong builds and there is no currency to do.’’
Of course not, if there are people who play melee builds today, it must be a very small amount, most are blizzorc or hammerdin or javazon. Enough of this meta, I am sick of feeling obligated to play these classes if I want to have a decent starter.

2 Likes
1215

So, I´m gooing to test that now… report later.

EDIT: Equipped an act 5 frenzy with an Azurewrath (mine has lvl 10 sanctuary aura) and an Lawbringer (lvl 18). Both stack and the sanctuary aura is at lvl 28 and reaches beyond the sceen. The dmg is not to crazy without any synergies but the range is huge. I would limit the aura on the Sanctuary RW to 5-8 (6-8 yards by itself). With a lvl 18 Lawbringer you would end up with an still huge range above the screen. But only the shield would be still viable if used on your own char. I guess that would be very good mid-game act 3 combo to use and be usefull for a normal playthrough (only the lawbringer was not as bad as I´d expected it to be with me last Frenzy-Barb playthrough).

Up to lvl 20 as probose would probably end up with an aura even 2 screens away… to crazy. We could rather increase the lvl of the (Level 12 Slow Missiles (60 Charges)) to lvl 18 as well. A little buff and 40 seconds longer duration (what is in my opionon more importanten than a few % more in dmg reduction).

Adding Indestructible to prevent spawing eth doesn´t work here. It´s a RW and your base is already eth then :slight_smile: But to be honest, I like the idea of Stone beeing the highes defence armor in the game. We just should not put it close to Forti. So no offensive attributes. So I like the above. Well balanced, affordable but not crazy OP or really super end game viable (only for some selected niche builds).

About def. If I´m correct a perfect sacred armor eth with +15 ED would have 1035 def. with +290 ED on the RW, that could be a 4.036 def on stone at the very max. The base would be insanely expensive. A normal good (600 base def) eth SA would have with a 270 ED roll like 3.330 Def at the end. That would be perfectly fine for me here (with a very high strength requirement to equip). Changes to the charges a good neccesary (I can´t imagine a build making this changes OP but serval who would benefit here).

So, done for me!

With you! Thats fine for me, put it on the OP!

Any comments here? More charges ans slightly stronger skill on an eth item or very strong skill? Or leave as it is? I haven´t used Death so far an thus no used a golem, but a CB and CS Death are waiting for my next WW-Barb to be testet :slight_smile:

Bramble: Any thoughts on my comment? Whats the current proposal?

So we take this to the OP? Fine for me!

1 Like
1216

So, those two topics in a seperate post.

Sockets:

I like the idea of 1 OS in those in general. Increase possabilities without beeing crazy. If we extend that to the bases I assume uniques would be granted 1. OS as well? But what happens if you put a Zod in an eth T-Stroke or Warshrike? :man_shrugging:

The reason why I only opted for 3 OS and therewith a relativ small seletion of RW or very expensive and therewith adequate ones was not to enable spirit here.

I´m absolutely with you, that this would not be on par with a +45% pally shield (what could spawn on normal items with lvl req. of <10 already). But I really think that buffing the shi**** out of other options to make them competitive with other OP versions is not the way to go in my humble opinion. I would like to see spirit using higher runes to make it an lvl 35+ item. But that is something we would not see.

So a +45% all res pally spirit is crazy OP that early and for that dirt cheap.

But a + 3 bone spear, + 3 CE and + 3 bone prison lvl 40 Minion skull with a spirit even more insane in my opionion… A Splendor 3/3/3 voodoo head is really ok at lvl 37. It would be viable with a decent price performance ratio.

So I still would like to discuss that with you and personally vote for the version with elites having max. 3 OS. I would be easy to extand that later anyway…
Or at least to limit 4 OS to Bloodloard and Succubus Skulls both starting at lvl 60 or higher?

What would be the best place to discuss this one further?

1 Like
1217

Just make rare items worth it so people look for items also not just runewords most of the best items are runewords… we miss the unique items values… Please make the old uniques useable again thats all. And ofc better stash(stackable material resources).
Also please buff some of the sets… atleast make each class to have GOOD set… not like now… only Tal Rasha set and maybe Trangul… and maaybeee ImmortalKing… Please make each class to have a good set(maybe more rare ofc…).

2 Likes
1218

Few comments. Thanks for testing Sanctuary on RW and agree to aura lvl. I think we leave Death as-is. For Bramble, add flat damage for physical characters and buff spirit of barbs. For Passion, remove hit causes monster to flee and buff light damage and heart of wolverine. For voodoo heads, increasing max sockets to 3 is a more balanced approach. Lastly, for throwing knives and axes, I added note it extends to all rarity types.

With that said, I updated OP based on previous discussion:

Sanctuary
Ko Ko Mal
Shields
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+20% Faster Block Rate
20% Increased Chance of Blocking
+130-160% Enhanced Defense
+250 Defense vs. Missile
+20 To Dexterity
All Resistances +50-70
Magic Damage Reduced By 7
Level 12 Slow Missiles (60 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Level 5-8 Sanctuary Aura When Equipped

Stone
Shael Um Pul Lum
Required Level: 47
Armor
+60% Faster Hit Recovery
+250-290% Enhanced Defense
+300 Defense vs. Missile
+16 To Strength
+16 To Vitality
+10 To Energy
All Resistances +15
Level 16 Molten Boulder (80 Charges)
Level 16 Clay Golem (16 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Indestructible
    • Add Damage Reduced By 15%
    • Change Clay Golem Level to 24
    • Change Molten Boulder Level to 24 and Charges to 120

Beast
Ber Tir Um Mal Lum
Required Level: 63
Axes, Scepters, Hammers
Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+240-270% Enhanced Damage
+20% Chance of Crushing Blow
+25% Chance of Open Wounds
+3 To Werebear
+3 To Lycanthropy
Prevent Monster Heal
+25-40 To Strength
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Change Grizzly Level to 26 and Charges to 15

Bramble
Ral Ohm Sur Eth
Required Level: 61
Armor
Level 15-21 Thorns Aura When Equipped
+50% Faster Hit Recovery
+25-50% To Poison Skill Damage
+300 Defense
Increase Maximum Mana 5%
Regenerate Mana 15%
+5% To Maximum Cold Resist
Fire Resist +30%
Poison Resist +100%
+13 Life After Each Kill
Level 13 Spirit of Barbs (33 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Damage +50-100
    • Change Spirit of Barbs Level to 26

Passion
Dol Ort Eld Lem
Required Level: 43
Weapons
+25% Increased Attack Speed
+160-210% Enhanced Damage
50-80% Bonus To Attack Rating
+75% Damage To Undead
+50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
+1 To Berserk
+1 To Zeal
Hit Blinds Target +10
Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25%
75% Extra Gold From Monsters
Level 3 Heart of Wolverine (12 Charges)

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Change Lightning Damage to 1-100
    • Change Heart of Wolverine Level to 8
    • Remove Hit Causes Monster To Flee 25%

Maximum Sockets
To improve exceptional and elite throwing knives, throwing axes, daggers, hand axes, clubs, staves, bardiche, spears, two-handed axes, warhammers, flails, and shrunken heads, the max sockets will be increased as shown below:

Max Sockets Current Improved
Battle Dart 0 1
War Dart 0 1
Francisca 0 1
Hurlbat 0 1
Francisca 0 1
Flying Knife 0 1
Winged Knife 0 1
Flying Axe 0 1
Winged Axe 0 1
Poignard 1 2
Bone Knife 1 2
Rondel 1 2
Mithril Point 1 2
Hatchet 2 3
Tomahawk 2 3
Cudgel 2 3
Truncheon 2 3
Jo Staff 2 3
Walking Stick 2 3
Quarterstaff 3 4
Stalagmite 3 4
Lochaber Axe 3 4
Ogre Axe 3 4
War Spear 3 4
Hyperion Spear 3 4
Military Axe 4 5
Feral Axe 4 5
Battle Hammer 4 5
Legendary Mallet 4 5
Knout 5 6
Scourge 5 6
Mummified Trophy 2 3
Fetish Trophy 2 3
Sexton Trophy 2 3
Cantor Trophy 2 3
Hierophant Troph 2 3
Minion Skull 2 3
Overseer Skull 2 3
Hellspawn Skull 2 3
Succubus Skull 2 3
Bloodlord Skull 2 3

Note: Throwing knives/axes cannot be socketed, and with these changes, will now be allowed 1 and only 1 socket (all rarity types).

2 Likes
1219

The only clear and formed opinion I have is to reduce the possible sockets on normal and exceptional paladin shields to 3 to delay the paladin’s spirit to level 42.

Giving only Bloodloard and Succubus access to 4 sockets is my initial proposal. I have reasons for wanting it, but I prefer your proposal, which in fact I see many qualities in it, starting with it, it releases almost all RW for the necromancer, except the spirit, and the first argument in favor of your proposal and not mine is that Homunculus will still share BIS with Spirit for the necromancer summoner. In my proposal, Homunculus will lose BIS status.

I clearly prefer that the only ones are reinforced and the RW lose importance at the end of the game, which for me is the essence of this discussion in this entire topic, even though I knew that there are problems with the RW and that they also need to be changed.

Furthermore, I don’t really know which is the best proposal for the simple fact that the game had a class at the top which was the hammer paladin. mosaic has moved this top even further away, and we have absolutely no idea how the DEVS will deal with mosaic or if the new top is Assasina MA and will stay that way.

If the mosaic remains at the top I think my proposal is more reasonable and that the doors of madness will be opened. If Mosaic is nerfed and MA sin is nerfed as a consequence, which I think should be the way to happen, but I think it is less likely to happen, I’ll stick with your 3-socket proposal.

I apologize for the long text to explain why I don’t have a closed opinion on this discussion.

2 Likes
1220

True! But we agreed, that rares are such a complex topic, that we would think about those later and first finish the started discussion here. Rares will be a nother 1.000+ replies post I assume (but on the schedule…at least at mine) :slight_smile:

Good! As the rest before as well!

I think thats good as well!

Decent!

Death is okay and we could leave it as it is. But I personally would support buffing the Golem charges with increase golem lvl and charges. Death will not be OP here since you need a good base to even make it somehow end game viable. But a lvl 22 Golem without any synergies at the lvl 55 starting point for Death is just a waste.

I would still recommend an lvl increase to 30 and charges increased to 30. If they run out you would not have any options to restart. It would not change the power level too much but would be appropriate to make use of the affix at all.

Still, I´m curious what should happen if you put a Zod in it? If they implement the change that a Zod will automatically transform the item into an eth version, that would be good. Has anyone seen a Zod in a Bow and what that will do (on maxroll it only showes the indistructable mod - so no use at all in bows? The opens up a new question. If a Zod transforms into en eht version. Should that apply to bows? Making an Windforce even more BIS and we would ne no reconsider all other bows again :slight_smile:

But what should happen to throwing weapons? Transforming it into an eth version yes. But does it do anything to the stack size?

That is absolutely the essence of this thread! You provided reasoning and are willing to eleborat further (not everybody is investing this time and effort :slight_smile: )! So both :+1: :+1: up! Keep that please. If it would be an easy topic to fix we would not collected over a 1.000 replies on this :slight_smile:

True, but I´m not very confident that we see that happen. An existing LL spirit will gain in value tremendously. So for my part I´m willing to just accept, that pallys have an advantage. You allways could choose not to go this way. But with viable alternatives you would also have tons of more fun with now not viable builds over the next 20 years :slight_smile:

Your consideration of Homunculus loosing is true! But it would be still super viable (more block, a bit res and skills in curses). I would be fine with the “all elites max 3 OS” approach. But also could see Bloodloard and Succubus heads enabled for 4 OS (especially if our nerf to spirit would come true - onyl 1 skill and less FHR). Finding one of those two elite types with 4 OS and the right skills will be super rare (compareable with finding those GG circlets) to make a spirit far better then a Homu but even then Homu would have its strong use case and if spirits gets nerfed as propose, that would be not an issue at all (then we even could talk about every elite having 4 OS imho). So im good with both options (but adding 4 OS could even be implemented later, so no rush here) :man_shrugging:

1 Like
1221

Agreed, here you go…

Death
Hel El Vex Ort Gul
Required Level: 55
Swords, Axes
100% To Cast Level 44 Chain Lightning When You Die
25% To Cast Level 18 Glacial Spike On Attack
Indestructible
+300-385% Enhanced Damage
20% Bonus To Attack Rating
+50 To Attack Rating
Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
7% Mana Stolen Per Hit
50% Chance of Crushing Blow
+0.5-49.5% Deadly Strike
+1 To Light Radius
Level 22 Blood Golem (15 Charges)
Requirements -20%

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Change Blood Golem Level to 30 and Charges to 30

As bows don’t have durability, no ethereal status should be applied.

As Last Wish is so insanely expensive, I think the lack of IAS is definitely hurting this runeword along with the need to improve the charged bolt proc as follows…

Last Wish
Jah Mal Jah Sur Jah Ber
Swords, Hammers, Axes
6% To Cast Level 11 Fade When Struck
10% To Cast Level 18 Life Tap On Striking
20% To Cast Level 20 Charged Bolt On Attack
Level 17 Might Aura When Equipped
+330-375% Enhanced Damage
Ignore Target’s Defense
60-70% Chance of Crushing Blow
Prevent Monster Heal
Hit Blinds Target
+0.5-49.5% Chance of Getting Magic Items

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add +30% Increased Attack Speed
    • Change Charged Bolt Level to 36
1 Like
1222

That would be good and usefull. :+1:

Absolutely agree! What about throwing weapons, should they don´t be converted? If so, what would happen to my beloved eth warshrikes? What would happen here?

No real opinion about this tbh. Insanely expensive, probably make one just for the fun of it. In a phase blade (what else would you use, since its insanely expensive) this would match the top end of Grief IAS. Would that change any char using it to be then OP? I´ve no clue tbh :man_shrugging:

1 Like
1223

Good question, not sure to be honest. I’ll have to think about that one.

If any runeword deserves to be OP, I think it should definitely go to Last Wish. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Last RW I wanted to discuss is Fury. It costs a Jah! Devs should make frenzy incredible, and really needs indestructible and better ED…

Fury
Melee Weapons
Jah Gul Eth
40% Increased Attack Speed
+209% Enhanced Damage
Ignores Target Defense
-25% Target Defense
20% Bonus to Attack Rating
6% Life Stolen Per Hit
33% Chance Of Deadly Strike
66% Chance Of Open Wounds
+5 to Frenzy (Barbarian Only)
Prevent Monster Heal

  • Proposed Buffs:
    • Add Indestructible
    • Change Enhanced Damage to 300%
1 Like
1224

I support almost all of these changes.

It would really open up the game and make the meta fesh again.

2 Likes
1225

Can we discuss the properties of the prefix and sulfix table in sequence? Do you accept my sincere apologies for not creating the topic as you suggested me back there? I had personal problems and I’m still having to move house.

1 Like
1226

Instead of revamping prefix/sulfix tables as that would be a pretty daunting task, I think a more efficient proposal for the devs would be to selectively remove the most undesirable affixes that spawn on rare items.

Rare Item Affix Pruning
As a general change to improve rare items, the most undesirable affixes shown below will no longer be spawned on rare items (can still be spawned on magic items)…

Affix Attribute
Glimmering +1 to Light Radius
Glowing +2 to Light Radius
Bright +1 to Light Radius, +10 to Attack Rating
Light +1 to Light Radius, +10-15 to Attack Rating
Radiance +3 to Light Radius, +30 to Attack Rating
Blanched +5-8 to Defense
Eburine +9-20 to Defense
Bone +21-40 to Defense
Brown Heal Stamina +10-15%
Tireless Heal Stamina +10-50%
Rugged +5-10 to Maximum Stamina
Chestnut +10-15 to Maximum Stamina
Maroon +16-25 to Maximum Stamina
Vigorous +21-30 to Maximum Stamina
Thorns Attacker Takes Damage of 1-3
Malice Attacker Takes Damage of 1-5
Spikes Attacker Takes Damage of 4-6
Razors Attacker Takes Damage of 7-9
Screaming Hit Causes Monster to Flee 12-25%
Howling Hit Causes Monster to Flee 18-50%
Wailing Hit Causes Monster to Flee 25-100%
Freedom Requirements -15%
Ease Requirements -20%
Simplicity Requirements -30%
Thawing Half Freeze Duration
Bear Knockback

No worries my friend. My concern with such a massive undertaking is the developers would not even consider it due to the sheer amount of work entailed.

1 Like