Do people actually realize that with sunder charm, at endgame setup, with infinity on merc, lightning and fire sorc will vastly outperform cold sorc?
Well not just lightning and fire sorc, but many other elemental builds such as wind druid, fire druid, javazon, spearazon, bowazon (fire/cold) will outperform cold sorc. Why? Because cold mastery is an advantage before infinity but a disadvantage after infinity, because you can’t exceed the -100% res limit.
Cold sorc is again, just a stepping stone for other better builds at endgame I guess
coldsorc is competitive with the other sorc builds and still better/more versatile than all the druids + zons you mentioned except java.
Give her DF, +3blizz ormus, nightwings, fill those with coldfacets and see what survives a blizzard.
P8 Lister is probably the tankiest Monster in the game at roughly 200k HP (non actbosses only). your 15k screendmg blizzard kills him with 7 Shards, thats like 3 seconds. How much more OP do you want to be?
Yes but that’s not why cold sorc was cited. Cold sorc will be able to fully farm the entire game, in mediocre day 2 levels of gear if they get a hold of a sunder charm too. The end game will result in many things being stronger than cold sorcs, but it speeds up the progression of the cold sorc by like 6x.
Lights abilities work better than colds which also work better than fire.
Yes, end game builds are going to perform better than cold, but nothing makes up for the fact that metor/hydra/fireball are all bad abilities for crowd clearing. FB is decent single lane clearing tho.
Diablo II (and this genre) was never balanced and will never be balanced. Fun is what matters. Diablo II is a video game, not a job. We play video games for fun.
I do feel like we’re hearing from more from the crowd that either takes place in the ladder race disproportionally or who think about the ladder race as too much importance.
Are Sunder Charms perfect? No
Does Melee BADLY need some love and Sunder Charms make that even more apparent? Yes
In the end though the Sunder Charms, I think, will add to the overall enjoyment of the game when playing less than ideal builds. D2’s greatness, imho, is the ability to build towards strong fantasy class visions. Sunder Charms will help with this for builds that are “B tier” or lower. It does, without a doubt, cause some issues w/ the top-end builds but is this sacrifice worth it? Maybe… I hate being so “fence-sitting” but without a lot of hours into a ladder season it is tough to tell how those lower end builds feel.
yes i realize that. I think people put far to much weight on the power of end game builds, Most people don’t even get infinity + all that other good stuff. If you do grind out a handfull of Hrs to sink into a character that character is going to be Very powerful and thats fine, its good that sunder charms can now allow for many different build to become end-game-lighting-sorc power level. but again its not a big deal seeing how most poeple dont even get there.
what is a big deal is new changes that create imbalance in the mid-game, early and mid game is where all the action is at, its what makes or breaks your rank on the ladder. Now more then ever since TZ will allow you to push to 99 much faster.
If there is some cheese with a particular build that allows that build to have Almost end-game clear speed/ power with only a Vex worth of investment, that’s a big deal, that’s some serious cheese.
the fact that an end game build is more powerful then cold+sunder doesn’t make it any less cheesy.
True, but the main thing is the fact that you can make a cold sorceress work extremely well in the entirety of the game without lower resist or infinity. The cost to build a good mfing cold sorc is going to be negligible (unless sunder charms are extremely rare)
im not sure if that really changes anything if the light sorc needs a sunder charm And infinity to be better then cold+sunder. then cold+sunder is always far easier to get.
unless the cold sunder charm is the most rare of all. hmmmm…
it will probably be as rare as the others
but player side demand is gonna be so much higher on the cold sunder
that it’s gonna make the price comparable to infinity or at least ber+
Really tho? Becsuse melee doesnt have that big issue with immunies as other elements, its second less ued immunity in game and majority of zones do not have physical imunes, and if yes its only 100%. And you have sanctury, sources of amplify damage abd decrepify.
I really dont see reason to use sunder charm at all when i will play barb, because i simply doesnt need it.
i’ll gladly play any other element sorc build then blizz sorc if i dont have an infinity.
Being that ive always started with naked blizz sorcs for 20+ years with all the on and off playing various ladders. Id be happy to play a fire sorc that can farm more then the recently changed stony tomb from patch 2.3 . Fire sorcs are much more spammy and fast paced compared to blizz sorc where you gotta drop a mini nuke that doesnt always hit the target since it hits random tiles (so single targetting a blizzard doesnt ALWAYS guaranteed a hit).
Sunder charms allow people to just play whatever build they find fun… which is at the end of the day what any player is gonna do for a game … to have fun and be able to turn off your brain for a few hours as you go auto pilot farming… usually with no real good drops… but when the rare times a super sexy high rune or hard to find tc87 or actual rare/blue item (rare nado hats, jmod, assassin claws, barb bo hats, etc) drops … you suddenly wake up and get that rush of endorphins … D2 is really actually a mini gambling simulator LOL. You chase that high/rush feeling of a incredible drop.
This. People ignore the fact that with sunder charm, your clear speed in ancient tunnel, arachnid lair stays the same. With monsters not immune to cold, there’s zero difference for cold sorc before and in 2.5.
Quite true. What melee builds need is AoE, not breaking immunity.