"Okay, so which class should be the best at doing Baal runs?"
“That would be the paladin.”
"Alright, but what about chaos runs?"
“The paladin, but look others can do it too. It’s just easier with the paladin”
"Right, so which one is the best at rushing people through the whole game?"
“Well… it’s the paladin.”
"Which class is the best at doing boss runs?"
“You’re going to laugh… haha… it’s the paladin…”
"So, what about ubers?"
“Look, man. We like the paladin, alright?!”
"Okay… okay… calm down… is there another class that can do it?
“Sure, many.”
"Are any of those just as good at it or very close?"
“Haha. Hm. It’s can be somewhat close… I guess.”
"I see a trend here… What about cow runs?"
“HA! It’s the amazon”
"Oh great! What about Travincal?"
“Okay, I’m out. You just want me to say the paladin is better at this point and I will not be baited”
"No, wait! What about PVP?"
“Go f— yourself”
Yeah, basically… The paladin fills all the roles in a RPG.
He’s a caster, a melee, a tank, a buffer, a debuffer and a dps. To top it all off, his gear options are better than most other classes.
Lightning sorc with Infinity merc is faster than any paladin at those.
Since D2R, a Firewall sorc seems to be even faster/better than a smiter.
PvP is more like a Rock Paper Scissor thing. So nope.
While I don’t disagree I have no problems with teh Palladin being OP, I personally don’t really like playing P{alladin much so it does not change anything in my way of playing teh game.
Also hammerdn are indeed powerful but they trully reach their full potential with Enigma, a pretty expensive runeword while Sorceress has Teleport instantly making Sorceress a lot easier to roll first.
Now I really doubt this game will; achieve any soprt of balance even if the team seems to be planning balance changes because too many skills are useless and would need a complete redesign, that said I would like to see WW barb and other builds like that come back with a vengeance.
For the barb, that passive tree has plenty of space left for a skill that could make him better at farming. Add an AoE passive that goes for 1% to 30% AoE damage in a 3-4 yards radius and you got yourself something more interesting to farm with. With +skill you’d reach something closer to 40% AoE damage.
Oh sure, once you find an elite ethereal polearm base with good base speed and 4 sockets and then you need Ber-Mal-Ber-Ist. Before that the lightning sorc just isn’t great. The hammerdin without enigma will clear chaos much faster than a lightning sorc without Infinity.
Give spirit sword, spirit shield, vipermagi and a peasant crown to a hammerdin and he’s breezing through hell chaos sanctuary without having to dodge anything.
That’s a bug, not a feature
My smiter used to dominate pvp games pretty easily. Charge = you’re stunned and then I mow you down with smite which will stun you too lol
Funny that you have to make special szenarios for Paladin, but I bite. Blizz sorc or Orb/FW sorc will be as fast as the hdin or faster. Pretty much the same gear.
Seems like you just played BM pugs. Try real pvp 
with the pvp folks, your smiter will cry against some of those builds.
It’s not a special scenario, if you don’t need good gear to be OP. The sorc is the best starter class, because of teleport and the ability to do 2 dmg types but you’re still not going to just cruise through maps without having to dodge with crap gear.
The paladin has self buffs that the sorc only wish she had. That holy shield skill make the paladin almost impervious to physical dmg by giving him a ton of defense, while increasing block chance. The frozen armor or which ever you chose is not on par with that.
But really if the only argument against the paladin is the most expensive sorceress (both are at the top of the food chain) then I’d say it’s safe to say that the paladin is OP.
I played trapsin on D2R start and it was much safer and more relaxing than hammer at mfing with starting eq. Easy 2 elements and Cloak+MB is easy CC. It is also more fun to me than hammer. Also DS ->CE owns mobs. Hammer is versatile but boring and I dont see problem with it.
Also lest be real PvM balance is w/e this game is easy with average EQ and roflstomp with full eq for all classes.
And in pvp atleast GM duels nothing beats hybrid assasins.
this post is absolutely false. light sorc is the fastest chaos and baal runner in the game
pit zerker (a barb) is among the best mf characters in the game….
this is what i mean man, i really hope the devs don’t listen to people who obv don’t know much about the game….
Yeah, just gotta skip all the games with tons of Souls if you don’t have the sturdiest light sorc possible, because then it can get pretty hit or miss if you’re not going beast mode dodge everything quick.
The paladin will just face tank all that calmly get rid of those souls, no biggy
Can we please not make the argument that a build which is basically usable in a select few maps is “the best”
Oh I know a lot about the game. I just don’t lie to myself. I don’t rationalize my way out of the obvious fact that the Hammerdin is the master class in this game.
Hdin has to go in melee range. GL with a low lvl low geared hdin. He eats a lot of dmg without gear. A sorc does not have to do that. Most enemies die before you are even in their range. Dodging is something you should always do, no matter the gear… but maybe that’s why you are riding the hdin, he can face tank more with endgame gear.
Now you are talking ENDGAME GEAR. Ofc Endgame HDIN can facetank a lot. But without gear, the holy shield is crap. And the rest is solved by anti venom pots, mana pots and health pots. Not a real biggy. A sorc should never have to facetank, but she erases everything with the same level of gear your Endgame pala facetanks.
The “most” expensive sorc needs lower HR’s than the Enigma of your paladin
Also you don’t need to have the best options, 117 fcr + Infinity are enough.
But if it beats the HDIN in its best gear, than wouldn’t the SORC be even more OP?
Buddy you got some logic flaws, it’s not even funny anymore.
HDIN is a strong class. Smiter is the cheapest UT toon. But both can be beaten right now with a sorc. In PvP there are builds that wipe the floor with paladins. So I think it’s pretty balanced, except that there are nearly no magic immunes in the meta areas.
You’re talking pure damage only. I’m talking about the overall performance. The hammerdin is well rounded character that is both top tier defensively and top tier offensively (AND with really good clear speed when using enigma).
If you want to make the argument that only the offense matters when comparing classes then sure the Sorc is a very strong class. There’s no doubt that the Sorc and Paladin are at the top. I’m not saying otherwise.
The point is that those two classes aren’t the only two you can play and of all the classes the paladin is superior. He’s got the most well rounded skill tree in the game, with the most good gear options in the game indepedently of the build you choose. He got it all.
The fact that your ligntning sorc is dependant on a paladin skill to be OP is only more proof of how many advantages he got. In fact, A LOT of classes depend on a paladin skill to be played at full potential (max possible dmg or survivability). Why? Act 2 merc or Act 1 merc with Faith bow or just gear with auras.
The paladin is top tier. It doesn’t matter what you want to do in the game, the paladin is top tier.
if you reduced the Hammer dmg by 1/3, he would still be top tier. Two or three hammers to kill any monsters in a 8 players game would still make him stronger than the wing druid. He currently is capable of killing any monster (except bosses) with 1-2 hammers depending on which monster it is. He’s so strong it doesn’t make sense to make him as sturdy as he is.
Ever heard of the immortal sorc? Buddy Teleport is a defensive skill too. Dodging everything in a blink of an eye is pretty much better than any RES or DEF or holy shield.
If we would talk only about highest dmg numbers we would talk about a very different sorc build.
You listed things where you said Paladin is the best option. Not me. But the Sorc beats the paladin in those categories. She is faster and better at clearing cs and baal. She can rush faster than the paladin, she doesn’t even need her highest FCR cap to be faster. Paladins at 125fcr port at sorcs 63 fcr cap. She is also faster at every boss kill, as she halfs the HP bar before the hdin even starts…
Buddy I understand that you hate the HDIN. I don’t know why and I don’t care, but you are reaching for straws. It’s sad to look at your posts…
Yeah because a paladin without Enigma is as good as Sorcs without Infinity? Guess you are dreaming. If it wouldn’t require to slot a wand and actively cast it, Lower Resist would be enough for most parts and nobody would need conviction I’d prefer Bo over any merc aura. Who would want to play without Battle orders anymore?
You don’t even think about the abilities of other classes and builds. Corpse Explosion is one of the best skills in the game. Nec and Sin share it.
I think it is useless to discuss with you any longer. We established that you need to learn a lot about the game and reduce your hate for the HDIN which blinds you, before discussing again.
Think about buffs to other classes and builds which would help them be on par with the Hdin without breaking the game.
I’m not even salty about that.
What I am salty is they took away the Arab Paladin and replaced it with Black Paladin for brownie points.
Nah, what is obvious is you refuse to see how the paladin is the most well designed class in the game with the most gear options and the most versatility. You can nitpick one detail and look away at the mountain of other details just to prove that with that one detail you can find a better class for it, but you cannot argue against the fact that he’s just better overall.
Pick your favorite detail, I don’t care. The paladin’s superiority is something everyone is aware of after playing the game for a while.
And btw
Lower resist would GREATLY reduce her kill speed. Replace Conviction with Lower Resist and watch all the lightning sorc users cry about it until the end of time