I think most people would agree Bash is a severely underperforming skill with its annoying knockback ability. In terms of melee skills, it’s probably the worst in the game, and rarely used as a primary or even secondary skill in any build. With that said, as the brute strength of the Barbarian is unrivaled, I would like to propose a few thematic changes…
Bash Changes
Remove knockback (detrimental effect)
When 2-H weapon is equipped, skill will now grant 1-2% crushing blow per level
Flat damage starts at +3 (up from +1) and increases at +3 per level (up from +1)
Damage bonus starts at 100% (up from 50%) and increases at 10% per level (up from 5%)
Attack rating starts at 50% (up from 20%) and increases at 10% per level (up from 5%)
… just merge it with stun While scraping off the knockback.
In stuns place put cleave : requires a 2handed wep . Does damage in a melee arc . Procs on hit effects . Takes sinergy from bash and *new 2handed wep specialization . Point investment lowers mana cost …just as double swing
Bam , now barbs have a skill oriented for 2h weapons , cuz right now it is non existant (and Many Manly barbs cry Manly tears bcuz of it)
To be honest, I don’t like the idea of melee splash on Bash. Too drastic a change. All that is needed is add CB, remove KB, and buff AR and bonus damage.
I think adding cb to bash isn’t a horrible idea, but still too slow. I like the idea of giving 2hd weapons a cb bonus but a 1%bonus is too little imo. The only solution would be to maybe add a stagger instead of Kb and increase the damage a lot more instead of cb. Or a stagger effect where staggered targets are vulnerable to crushing blows for 5 seconds or something.
Or what about 1% to Cb, Deadly strike, and open wounds? That would make for a gory attack. I’m usually thinking from the perspective of a brand new character using the skill. If you’re talking a 20%cb bash build for endgame with a two handed I still think it’s not good enough to use and with 1% per lvl as a starter too slow.
Removing knockback is a terrible idea. Knockback is what makes it actually useful. You can use it to stunlock Blood Raven, Smith, Other Smith, or any dangerous bosses.
You want to buff bash, give it more %AR, and more +damage, and have it work before %ED. Maybe 5 +damage per level should be good.
I think single target spells are always at severe disadvantage. Concentrate may be good for Hardcore I guess. Berserk is very strong magic damage so it found its place.
But Stun, Bash have not enough damage, clear speed, protection, nor enough utility. We should start from those to create a solution. We should be creative.
Maybe Bash being such a strong punch it ignores all defenses of enemy:
“Ignore target physical resistance (but NOT P. Immunity like Sanctuary aura)”
It could be 5%/level, or complete ignorance of phys resistance.
Maybe also bump to +2-3 dmg/level. And work pre-%damage if it does not(?).
And for sure bump starting and per-level %damage and %attackRating.
Then remove knockback.
Having 2-hand weapon bonus Crushing blow seems nice touch. 1%/lvl, after lvl20 2%/lvl.
Or even Open wounds bonus. Or CB and/or OW bonus by some synergy.
Or another alternative is to preserve the Knockback and do add the AoE cleave damage. Or something along the line of knockbacking the monster and if monster is knocked back to other monsters behind it, it deals damage to them also.
My personal feeling is that I would keep the Knockback effect, otherwise it would be another general undistinquishable skill from Concentrate and Berserk. And make the Knockback useful by some good mechanic rework.
if you don’t want knockback, just use another skill… barb has 3 more standard melee attack skills. I would hate to see all of the skills become the same.
It is the skill identity of bash, to knockback. If you remove knockback, you might as well remove the skill.
And I don’t really see knockback always being detremental for single attacks. It may be for sequence attacks like fury or zeal (cuz they break sequence effectively), but for just 1-off swings? I don’t see the issue. Target got knocked back, then hit another target - while the knocked back target has to walk back to you.
It is also just a starter skill, so i don’t see why it should should be something crazy like crushing blow in the end game. It’s like asking for buffs to cold arrow. If you just start out a barb and max bash, you’ll have a great time for the first 20 levels and a few more.
I love how you try to riddicule OP idea, yet you propose some colliding effect damage. Seriously??? OP didn’t propose any new mechanic just wanted to give some real power to the attack to be usefull single target (remember its still 10fpa/9fpa max with lots of ias and not always hit like smite - btw also low level skill) and that could be later ballanced if it proves too strong.
You can add any fancy effect (even sky dragon breath) to this pretty slow attacking single target skill and it would still change nothing in utility department (unless aoe is huge like maybe sorc blizzard), not enough dps.
And one more thing, knockback is not AOE its crowd control effect.
I like the idea. It could prove to be something like uber killer skill (good dmg modifiers + freeing some other gear slots that is used to give crushing blow e.g. you can wear arreats instead of guillaume’s face or Botd eth CB for raw damage or ofc mighty grief pb onehand + shield still having high crushing blow.
But seeing some replies to your post and others I suppose many players just see barb as utility guy. You know…, he can bash, stun, jump, shout, search dead bodies, whirl like tasmanian devil and even create totem… Funny guy to say short. He can do everything but not some real damage (ok, ww 2x grief can do).
Only problem imo is that frenzy and ww will still be superior. Can you see anyone wanting to use bash for Ubers with a two hander? IK Maul can have 40cb and be used with whirlwind, why would anyone want to use bash over ww. I think if you want to make bash “better” then you have to make it more optimal for early game too not just something like Ubers.
Currently with OP’s idea of 1%CB per level, you’d be trying to hit level 20 with a less than average attack speed and dps skill. Even with 20%cb it isn’t great unless your killing single target bosses. Even then double swing is potentially a lot better with OW for normal mode since bash is the first skill you can use as a barb to put out damage the cb won’t do much. If you want to buff it make it actually worth using.
Agreed, the proposed changes to Bash does exactly that by buffing flat damage, bonus damage %, and AR. The icing on the cake is adding CB when using 2-H weapons, which could be very useful early game.
Well in terms of killing speed - yes 4fpa dual wield ww with enough crushing blow will be much better frenzy also faster
.But if you had e.g. 50-60% crushing blow and maybe open wounds with only bash it would be poor man uber killer which would also be safer with more gear option cuttered to survivability. Just an idea of it. It wouldnt change meta.
then we’ll just have a smite but with a weapon and not “always hits”
but seriously, in that case what makes “bash” a “bash”? IMO knocking back is the signature ability of the skill.
if crushing blow would be added to it, knocking back won’t hurt. It actually would HELP. You’re fighting a boss that cannot be knocked back, and without switching to another skill you could knock back other monsters out of the way if they trap you (think uber mephisto\pandemonium diablo fights)
Since bash is a 10% damage boost per level synergy to double swing then putting points into makes sense. However you have to ask yourself if it is in fact better for killing bosses than double swing? I think with your current idea the answer is no. Maybe if bash got a bonus from double swing the way Double swing gets one from bash it would help a bit but probably not enough.
And what is wrong with it being same purpose as smite? You could say Impale is slower smite, so what? Knockback can stay for “identity” of skill. It wolud be a bit different than smite.
