An idea to improve melee and give it AOE that makes sense?

Buff chance to cast.

All of the chance to cast effects are a pathetically low level, which is fine for the non damaging spells. Nobody is complaining about CtC level 14 fade or level 10 bone armor.

But with the 1.10 monster hp buff, the damaging CtC spells are totally worthless other than looking pretty.

Powering these up would rebalance some items that might’ve been considered useless, and would have a positive effect on melee builds.

Imagine that level 20 poison nova coming from your BOTD doing 2100 instead of 400.
You could actually clear out carvers and devilkin camps from that effect alone, instead of having to chase them all down individually.

Or imagine the chain lightning coming from your lightsabre actually killing stuff when it sparks through a crowd.
Or at the very least, it softens them up for you.

Splash damage could be something that is applied by default to any bladed class weapon (swords, axes and polearms), maybe call it “slash” damage. However I don’t think it should do the full amount of damage as the targeted attack. Say maybe 25% of the targeted attack damage within a 135 to 180 degree arc in front of the player. Skill attacks like WhirlWind would be a full 360 degrees. The weapon rangeadder would increase the distance of the slash damage, potentially making 2H swords and polearm melee builds more interesting to play.

Other thoughts:
Hammer/mace class weapons could get something else such as a small chance to stun a target.

Dagger class weapons could get something such as a small chance to instantly kill a target. (PVM only of course)

But we know this will never happen.

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Although this would be a good idea, I would say that if these weapon spelleffects functioned the way they were intended to, we wouldn’t even need any cleave mechanics.
What you’re proposing is something new, which you’re right, never gonna happen.

What I’m targeting is something that is already in the game, but has been left in the dust by power creep patches,

AOE support is already right there in the item spelleffects. It’s just that the spelleffects are uselss against anything with more than 500 hp lol.

This would fix items with charges also. Your boots that release a level 5 nova that does 25-54 damage… wouldn’t that be an interesting property if it did something relevant, like 1000-1200? Might actually throw some weaker mobs into hit recovery.

And it’s a 15% chance or whatever so it’s not like it’s able to be abused… it’s just a useful perk. Maybe it allows you to get away from a pack, and saves your life, yknow?

So your solution for improving melee is to…have them cast non-melee spells? :rofl: (Or at least make the spells already cast actually be meaningful)

Sorry a bit tongue and cheek there, and I agree most ctc spells right now are basically worthless w/o masteries and levels to get the damage reasonable, but…

I’d prefer they improve base weapon damage, and possibly add some flat damage and AR to certain skills so that they would scale better and be less item dependent. Raising base weapon damage also means balance between RW and Unique/Set items would be better. Grief is powerful because of the massive flat damage and where it enters the calculation, but it basically makes a weapon have the damage roll added to both min and max damage, giving it huge average damage. Increasing base weapon damage would still buff Grief, but it would buff other RW that use %enhanced damage more, making RW like Last Wish and BotD that are more expensive actually compete better. Plus set and unique weapons that have decent %ED would also benefit.

I also think they should do another pass on WW IAS BPs, 2H was left nerfed unable to get to 4FPA and many weapons need an insane 125 IAS to get to 5 FPA.

I play mostly melee, and when I do, I want to be a melee fighter, not use melee just to proc spells. If I want to use spells to kill, I just play a caster…Something like Splash damage is sort of similar in that it applies damage “magically” (ie you’re not actually hitting them) but at least with certain long range/large weapons it makes sense that you could hurt multiple enemies in a nearby area by swinging it.

Another common suggestion is to allow WW to proc - which has a few issues for me. One, it only helps WW, not other melee skills/classes, and Two, most Barbs want to hork, and Death is a fun WW weapon, so having Death proc Glacial Spike and freeze corpses would brick my WW MF Barb.

In most cases I’d say the skills that hit multiple targets have acceptable mechanics, and I’m fine with the fact that as a Zealer/Fury Pally/WW Druid, or Frenzy Barb or even WW Barb that I’ll clear screens slower than a caster just because of the fact that I can only attack a handful of monsters at at once, that’s part of the play style.

What I do have more of a problem with, is that the current balancing results in AoE spell that can also 1 shot everything in their large area of effect, while melee balancing is such that even with Grief, once you get to high player games, you’re usually having to hit an enemy multiple times to kill them. This would be okay “in a vacuum”, since 1 hit killing everything is a bit OP anyway, but when it already exists to such a level that spells can take out the whole screen with a single cast, it becomes a problem.

It just flat out feels bad to be attacking a trash monster for 30 seconds while a caster comes threw and blows up the whole screen instantly.

IMO an AoE spell should be balanced such that the damage is lower since it’s able to hit more monsters at once. Single/few target attacks and spells can do more damage to compensate for only hitting fewer targets.

I fear D2R is done with the level of support we’d need to get solid balancing passes though, and I fear another Mosaic situation.

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No no, I apologize for not being more clear.
Base weapon damage absolutely needs to be modified to match the monster health buffs as well.
I don’t think fixing CTC spelleffects is the answer for melee, rather it inadvertently buffs melee and adds a relevant amount of AOE damage without introducing cleave effects and new mechanics that blizzard wouldn’t implement even if hell froze over.

Slash the 50% blanket DR to mobs in hell. That’s the most simple way.

Maybe itenisation with another attack contribution.

Dr and attack are the only considerations here. Gg et that right, and the whole thing works.

The best solution is back to 1.09 Monster healths and remove synergies.

Global 50% DR in Hell hasn’t been a thing since 1.10, just FYI.

I’m sure it is, still now, a thing

Someone schooled me on this a while back too, and they’re technically right…. It’s most mobs, not all.
Blanket 50% phys. res. with some exceptions lol.

You’re probably not wrong here. The monster hp buff with synergies was a really bad decision balance wise.
Especially because they didn’t alter the rest of the game to match it.

It’s not. You can check monster physical resistance in monstats.txt, it’s not 50 across the board. Even if it were hardcoded like it is in 1.09 then any stone skin in Hell would be physical immune (assuming it doesn’t already have two other immunities), which clearly isn’t the case.

Exactly, synergies make more problems than fix existing ones, also there is respec system for low lvl skill builds.

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You can check it out here:
https://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php/Act_4_Summary_(Hell)

Such a great resource.
So yeah it’s not a blanket 50…. But it’s still pretty bad. Almost everything that isn’t an egg sac, trapped soul etc, will have probably 33-50%.
Some going all the way up to 80%
SOME mobs have 15-25% but it’s few and far between.

Act 1 gets off pretty easy because all of the archers and fallen/carver/devilkin type mobs have 15%

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Hehe, and now have a look at the cold resistances. A cold sorc attacks any monster, that isn’t immune, with a modified -100% resistance, basically. This means double damage, for a usual blizzard spike that’s 20-30k or even more damage per hit, one-hitting any monster and most uniques on Players 1. Those immune to cold are at 50% or close to zero, depending on gear - still one-hitting weaker monsters. And Blizzard is AoE.

No wonder barbs are doomed to hork.

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Dang schooled. So decrepify isn’t as powerful as I thought it was… Still very powerful. Thanks for the correction.

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It’s still powerful, yes. Basically doubling your damage. That’s why my frenzy barb is running Grief+Lawbringer in Chaos and WST.

Lawbringer is very powerful against all undead. Keep in mind that the Sanctuary Aura also works for your main hand weapon, entirely removing the physical resistance and immunity of all undead monsters! Add Decrepify to this, and your damage is tripled. Add Atma’s Scarab and you are quadrupling your damage. This is way more effective than two Grief.

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I am a massive fan of lawbringer offhand, no need whatsoever to convert me there.

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Me too! I actually didn’t realize this was a popular thing. I just went for it because it’s cheaper than another grief and helps deal with immunes :+1:

Sometimes grand phizer of chaos gets pushed beyond the walls of the sanctuary cause of the aura which can be a little annoying, but other than that it’s fantastic.

i dont think “chance to cast” is a good idea, that just turns “melee” into “casters”.
we all saw how mosaic went. i dont want blizzard to try that sort of thing again.

the way path of diablo did it was well done imo, although i wasn’t a fan of it requiring a jewel slot
it gave all melee attacks ( except whirlwind iirc)
an aoe of (i think) 5 meters, of 100% base weapon damage this damage still used the attack rating formula and was RANGED damage ( this is important because if it was melee damage it trigger itself and would then bounce back and forth between enemies until there was only 1 left it could hit)

while while this might seem like it would double damage on the orginal target ( and it would if u were simply using the basic attack skill) most skills have a damage ratio, and this skill damage was not copied, it would just be “ranged” damage equal to your as if u used a basic attack.

the one thing i would change is i would probably make it like 2% damage per lvl up to 100%
so at lvl 51 would would reach max

this way it wouldn’t be a massive power creep in norm.
but that rate of increase can be debated .