We all know the build immortal sorcs blasting p8 content with self equipped infinity not taking any damage. Well I think I might have stumbled across an easy fix.
You change mana per level from 1 to 2.5
I know what you are thinking. That’s absurd, that will just make early nova sorc suck and do nothing end game. A few points to that. Early nova sorc needs to stack energy still she is a mana guzzler, this doesn’t really change that.
Now end game nova costs 79 mana instead of 32. Genuinely with full build nova sorc I am blasting through my mana constantly worried my energy shield will fall off. I took infinity off put it on my merc, tried some different gear combos same issue. I love it.
This will kill off any nova sorc build that doesn’t use self-wield infinity or metal grid insight iron golems. A high level nova skill costs much more than 32 mana by the way.
The fix is really to nerf the insight runeword instead by reducing the meditation level by at least half, and to do this retroactively in non-ladder.
The insight runeword more broadly solves mana issues on builds far too well, especially in the early stages of builds. Even if insight had no aura at all, it would still out-compete runewords like honour.
While I agree insight is too good for the runes it costs. There is a breakpoint in the game where mana regeneration doesn’t matter. Spamming nova and just have a few mana on kill items allows you to infinite regen too at higher difficulty.
We would also have to nerf warmth as well as it has similar regeneration prowess. So I don’t really see insight nerfs fixing casters and their disregard of energy. Adding mana per skill point invested seems to help balance the game even if it is a deeply unpopular take.
Also yes nova costs more than 32 mana at higher levels for the sake of comparison I was showing lvl 20 v lvl 20. As those stats are easy to look up without using maxroll.
Not sure how much knowledge you have with nova sorcs in general, but if you look at self-wield infinity builds, you will see that the large bulk of her mana regeneration comes from the insight on the merc.
For starters. Warmth does not have similar mana regeneration capabilities as meditation. The build that I have prepared and tested has +984% mana regeneration, +700% of which come from the level 17 meditation aura, which can be made with runes obtained in normal difficulty. Warmth only accounts for +234% of her total mana regeneration on a self infinity build.
This translates into a build that regenerates 280+ mana per second, where as for the same build without insight, it would be closer to 120 mana per second.
This is huge.
Compared to a build using obsession with infinity on the mercenary, even though the obsession build has 700+ more mana, higher level warmth (25 vs 18) and mana per kill, and even though obsession has higher damage and requires less novas to kill things in most places, requires you to pot every now and then where as the infinity build is almost a complete sleeper build that doesn’t require potting.
For actual mana costs:
Self infinity: 54 mana @ level 42
Obsession: 62 mana @ level 50
This observation magnifies when you’re not using perfect rolled charms, a perfectly rolled obsession runeword or when you’re below level 95.
What does this all mean?
If you nerf nova by increasing its mana cost, it will brick nova builds that don’t use insight while hardly making a dent in builds that do
If you nerf insight by reducing its meditation level by at least 1/2, it will bring the mana sustain of self-infinity and IG nova sorc builds closer in line with other nova builds
Um, what is this even? You’re literally mad a build is good? Holy go-touch-grass batman. Considering they destroyed the bearsorc by nuking the werebear attack speed entirely I guess you want every sorc to run Blizzard?
I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish other than wrecking another build.
Why are you two… angry? Lol Bringing balance to the game means both nerfing and buffing. I also believe hammerdins conc aura synergy should be removed. As do many og players. Hammerdins can lose 10k damage and still be S tier
I find untouchable unkillable builds boring af, as I believe most people do. I want to see more build variety. And nerfing ubiquitous characters as well as buffing others brings that more in line with David Brevik and Schaeffer brothers original goal with Diablo.
I also don’t see playing single player as an insult? Ladder is single player with trading. People only come together for TZ chaos and Throne room. And I don’t have any faith this ladder in September will bring the change we need either.
I’ve stopped holding my breath after 3 seasons of disappointing balance changes in D2R and Blizzard shafting season 3 of ladder for a lot of players by ending it early to make room for D4.
And with the forest fire that it has become paired with the monumental success of Baldurs gate 3- It’s going to be a skeleton crew of devs for a minute.
Nova sorc needs something. And I think your insight changes might be better. Especially considering it and dual spirit is so stupidly good for how cheap it is. I mean for gods sake insight even comes with crit for your merc so it’s not like an extreme damage nerf like pride is for the sake of a good aura.
Then don’t play them? Or remove some of the gear that you think makes them feel overpowered, and play them that way?
I do like untouchable builds but if your proposed changes are implemented then it’s struggle street for me and everyone else, forever.
You like struggle street. You can already achieve it by not building your chars with top tier items.
I don’t like struggle street. If your proposed changes are implemented, I can never escape it.
Do you see what I’m saying?
You see no problem in forcing your desired game play on everyone else… even though you already have the tools available to you to play them at the level you feel they should be at. Meanwhile the currently-enjoyable gameplay will never be achievable for me (and others who also enjoy it) ever again.
Crippling good builds doesn’t promote more build variety when everything else sucks, it just makes everything suck equally.
Of course it won’t, development on d2r is pretty clearly over. All the more reason why proposed changes should be something new, meaningful and fun. Not " hey guys yknow how nova currently kicks butt? let’s NERF it so it doesn’t! "
We have very very limited (if any at all) audience with the devs so why not ask for something better than that?
I mean you’re wrong on that. Genuinely. Nerfing builds and buffing others is the only way to prevent an endless chase for power. Like D3 did that many of yall loathe here. I don’t think you see that, that mentality aligns with D3 mentality. And that’s okay.
I already stated that @onadroig idea was likely a better one for nerfing nova sorc. But I still hold that energy needs to matter. And by most skills not having a meaningful increase in mana requirements per level casters will always be better. They literally don’t have to invest any points in their attribute field. Most builds don’t even need to invest a single point in dex or strength.
There are fundamental issues with this game that need to be looked at and could very well bridge the gaps while still being seemingly harmless to the majority playerbase. I don’t care if you like being immortal. Diablo has always been a game that appeals to those who are gluttons for punishment.
I don’t see any suggested buffs here, you’re just advocating a nerf. If you wanna get people onboard why not start with the buffs so everything else feels good and then dial the overpowered ones back? Else you just annoy players and they leave.
and I don’t care if you hate it.
The game is the way it is, good luck having blizz change it. Especially given the recoil of half their playerbase after that last patch nerfed almost everything in D4. They’re prolly gonna tread very lightly from here on out when it comes to nerfs regardless of the title. It cost them dearly and I think they know that.
side note - you should care how other people want to play the game. If you want to steer a game towards one particular type of player then all you’re doing is reducing your playerbase. That doesn’t work, you only have to look at other titles to see that.
This is hardly that. This is a very fair nerf. That demands you make sacrifices. Namely vitality for energy. I feel like you compare to other games without understanding the context. The reason there was backlash behind nerfs for D4, that arguably needed to happen is that they A. Didn’t communicate it and B. Don’t have any direction. Nerfs for the sake of nerfs piss off everyone. I think we can agree on that.
I don’t even really understand what you’re trying to accomplish here? A build that can clear p8 content with ease while additionally having no defensive drawbacks is… broken. It needs to be fixed. I don’t think slowing down content clear is the way to go. I think making the build vulnerable whether that be nerfing mana regeneration or a nerf in that the ability costs more mana than you can feasibly regenerate means you have to play the game carefully. Which is as intended by the original devs.
Your goal seems to be to advocate mindless content clear? Which is not the original goal of the game.
… only after managing to gather the runes and other equipment for end-game items. There’s nothing wrong with that? Why do you want your character to still struggle even after achieving the BiS items?
Okay, but you’re probably in the minority if you still want to have to play carefully after fully kitting out your character. Go take your armour off if that’s what you want but don’t make the rest of us have to deal with that. Why not go play HC instead if you want to have to be careful?
No, my goal is that it’s fine the way that it is. Which blizzard seem to agree with 'cause that’s the way it is. Stop advocating for nerfs that are not needed.
While I do agree that a 2.5 mana cost per level on nova is quite harsh and will result in nova builds not using insight to wait about 8 seconds or use a pot or 2 between each small group, I agree with his intentions.
Given what “players 8” is meant to represent in the game, it’s one thing for an end game build to be able to clear players 8 content, it’s another for an end game build to clear players 8 content easily and effortlessly which is the case for the nova sorc, and as such any nerf to the nova sorc should by no means be automatically seen as wanting the build to struggle. Quite the opposite in fact.
When VV/Blizzard did their live preso of the changes to D2R that they were going to bring, they mentioned adding more build diversity, citing the reasoning to the best of my memory “because if some builds are way more powerful than others, there’s no real player choice anymore”.
On some level, they have made directions towards this… But on another level, they have broken game balance to be worse than before they touched things by making the chasm between melee and caster builds wider than ever. They have failed their stated mission.
And a lot of us are quite annoyed by this.
As for what “better” things Blizzard can be working on for D2R? The only thing that’s really important alongside game balance is implementing instanced loot, but that’s never going to happen.
Nova is literally meant to be played with Insight.
Originally Lightning Mastery did not enhance damage but reduced the cost of the lightning spells. That was changed when runewords and the skill synergy system came into play.
I think we were doomed from the start. The more I look back on D2R’s progression, the more I think D2R’s purpose for Blizzard is just a staging ground for Diablo 4. Now that Diablo 4 is out, D2R’s purpose from their perspective is fulfilled.
At least Diablo 4’s balance is better than D2R’s though.
was discussing it with a few others in the trade forum as part of finding a build other than a bowazon to play.