Capturing diplomatic envoy and imprisoning them is ALWAYS a bad move.
If they were smart they’d turn it to their favor. Could you imagine what a salt it would be if Zandalari joined Alliance?
But Alliance once again showed that they’re too stupid with diplomacy.
This is pretty much just a given not going to happen though. It’s unrealistic to think the Alliance would want to curry favor with the Zandalari. Or even the ability too. The horde barely manage to eek out a foot in the door, and they return Talanji to her kingdom.
Well he is entilted to his own opinion I just don’t understand why is he displaying such hostility. There are lots of posters I disagree with but no need to jump for the throat.
In the end it’s just a fiction. No reason to get so worked over. 
Zandalari have too much alliance blood on their hands to even consider joining up with Alliance.
Honestly if Alliance had a kill on sight policy with the Zandalari it would have made more sense to me.
Off topic though why do people keep expecting characters and nations to behave in perfectly logical, meta level knowledge way?
Why couldn’t it be something as simple as zandalari trolls getting to close, get captured, declare they are an envoy and the guard says “sure you are honey. Sit tight until my boss gets here”?
If you’re lying, and putting words in my mouth repeatedly, especially on a forum where you can quote people, I just get tired of having to repeat myself, and point out inconsistencies. I like the Zandalari, Rastakhan, Talanji, a lot about Zandalar. I also like the Alliance.
Rastakhan himself displays a total lack of respect for his own laws, so it’s easy to say he doesn’t care about anyone else’s. Claiming the Alliance acted like world police does nothing. They already weren’t held to this infraction of code, and wanting them to be in the wrong for doing it in the first place serves no purpose. It’s just meant to place blame on them that should have been in the story. But, even then it doesn’t add up.
THIS!
expecting characters and nations to behave in perfectly logical, meta level knowledge way?
It doesn’t make sense, but imagine trying to Rp with someone holding this belief. It’s insane they expect this from Azeroth. I do not understand it at all. They treat Wow like what I imagine Secondlife is.
More like Alliance has too much blood of the trolls on their hands.
Zandalari were hostile in Cata and MoP but they had their reasons.
Alliance was pressing too much into their territories and the only time Zandalari attacked Alliance on their lands was when They went to Dun’Morogh. And they went there because frostmane trolls were abused for years.
It’s different again when you meet a royalty. If you meet an ambassador/ royalty you give them a better treatment.
It just shows Zandalari in much better light. In Vol’Jin’s story even if Vol’Jin was against them they still tried to negotiate with him, they gave him food, clothing and bath.
And Vol’Jin wasn’t even Warchief back then. They knew Vol’Jin was agains them since Cata and thwarted their efforts.
Somehow Zandalari grasp the concept of diplomacy and Anduin doesn’t.
Nothing in my posts suggested that. It was not a meta knowlege to figure out that Talanji was a princess and imprisoning her was a bad move.
If these were regular Zandas sure, But we’re talking about princess.
And at stormwind, on the throne was sitting a guy who was kidnapped two times, so he should’ve know what consequences it can bring.
I think they use to the game to validly manifest real world prejudice onto in-game metaphors to be honest.
Notice all the people you are arguing with aren’t really saying reasonable things, just inflammatory comments meant to incite.
Not worth my time. Have them all blockedt.
I’m surprised some people around here even feel comfortable enough to think, with how much filtering, and victimhood baggage they seem to cart with them into the forums, that they have in real life.
What kind of ‘person’ talks about how proud he is to have people blocked, and ignore them, at length whenever he gets the slightest in to say this? I have another stalker, and he sucks more then the ones of the past.
Also
I think they use to the game to validly manifest real world prejudice onto in-game metaphors to be honest.
Validly? Pardon?
I’m pretty sure almost all of the racial additions to the factions have some sort of bizarre reasoning for why they go one side or another. It’s probably not worth squinting too hard at the reasons why.
I don’t think anything will top the draenei crash-landing a space ship out of nowhere into the night elves’ backyard, though.
It’s not always bizarre though, eh? Orc AR goes Horde. Dwarf AR Alliance. Elves is up in the air sure.
Mag’har orcs are almost up there with draenei, in my opinion, but half of that is because WoD’s premise is so out there to begin with, coupled with the Bronze Dragonflight going “uh sure we’ll temporarily take a side because Reasons to bring alternate universe orcs over.”
DI Dwarves were what I had in mind for being one of the few that make sense, given that they were pretty much part of the alliance for years by that point already. I was talking more about the in-universe reasons instead of the meta match-ups of orc = orc, dwarf = dwarf, though.
Oh, well of course. I’m not squinting at it to much, but at this point of an Orc clan joined the Alliance I would find that more weird, then a more realistic interpretation of who can join who, for what reasons.
Oh brother. Fine have it your way, the Alliance has killed trillions of trolls. Why should imprisoning trolls be so extraordinary to you? Both sides hate each other and have killed each other. Why would they want to ally now?
Does it matter? Let me answer that. No it doesn’t.
Zandalari and Gurubashi have been fantasizing they would rule the world again and have tried numerous rituals to make it happen that players have stopped. These people are a threat to the Alliance and so… they are hostile forces. Being an envoy does not give them a cloak of invulnerability. The Alliance is not interested in negotiating with Trolls.
For those Horde players looking for an evil Alliance to have fun with in their story. This is how that looks like.
It is not. You are attributing rules that the other side does not view as acceptable.
The Alliance isn’t interested in troll royalty or whatever they want from them.
It does. You expect the Alliance to treat the trolls with trust and decorum. You expect them to act with perfect meta knowledge. “Oh a troll princess!!! wow this is such an honor! Right this way your majesty!” Is simply not going to happen and it shouldn’t happen! Thats what makes these faction and racial deferences so much fun! Why would you want Andiun to be a good diplomat to Talanji.
He doesn’t care. He SHOULDN’T care. No one in the Alliance should. He should have held her hostage and used her as a bargaining chip against the Zandalari but Horde broke her out so that makes Horde players feel like heroes (which makes for good story and gameplay)
Again it really doesn’t matter to the Alliance. She is an enemy that they just can’t trust and threw her into a prison that was impossible to get out of without your help.
I honestly don’t care much what this Islamophobic racist has to say anymore. He is a walking contradiction that thinks quoting wikipedia articles makes him more respectable on a nerd forum.
Yeah, she did alot, despite having no prior combat or diplomatic experience. That’s kinda my point. Why is she able to do any of this?
This is a character just gets introduced out of the blue and just suddenly excels at everything without really having to earn any of these skills.
For all my issues with Yrel, at least she saw organic progression into being a leader/vindicator via consistent first-hand experience and is only seen as a mary sue because the entire middle of her story was cut, so she quite literally went from A to C. Talanji’s entire story occurs in the length of a patch, and it’s not because anything is missing, that’s just her whole story.
It does cuz her accomplishments are neither well-built up or earned. She’s a shallow character who shows up, is relatively sucessful at nearly everything besides preventing her pops’ death, and is shown to have virtually little to no flaws in-gane. Hers’ is a character that’s rushed to the finish line cuz of negligent writers who forget time and again that they are running a low on characters and refuse to organically build any up throughout their various expansions.
It’s a similar mindset to waiting until the last day to finish writing an essay for school. For writers who allegedly plan their expansions YEARS in advance, they sure don’t know how to put much time in laying the groundwork for them. If they had in mind this very important Zandalari princess character who they had planned to introduce, they had MORE than enough time to do so. They were doing more seeding and prep-work for Shadowlands in Legion than they were for the Zandalari plot of the subsequent expansion.
Cuz I’m tired of having solid, interesting, legacy characters axed off in place of cheap new ones hastily developed for the sake of filling a some social quota. This could not be more obvious with the cluster of dull characters either introduced or re-introduced with BfA because the writers kinda forgot that they keep axing off all the Hordes’ foundation characters without developing proper replacements with the ample time they have and as a result, we get ones who feel half-complete or rushed, like Talanji.
It’s not about having it my way. I was trying to show why this situation is more complex than meets the eye. The whole discussion is about relations and diplomacy after all.
We’re talking about imprisoning royalty, which was always framed in this game as a bad move. Each time it appeared it was shown as something terrible. If there is consistency in this game, then that is how acting against diplomats/royalties is a bad thing. Both from Alliance and Horde PoV.
So is Alliance, that was their history in a nutshell. But they always pretend that they’re doing righteous things, no? Alliance also had to be stopped multiple times because they were a threat to others.
It does. Not only in this franchise but others as well. - well maybe not invulnerability but everywhere attacking diplomats/ royal family is a very bad sign and isn’t treated trivially.
It’s a consistent thing in WoW, as we saw in case of Anduin.
It was shown as a bad thing when Sylvanas took Lorna as a hostage to do the blackmail.
It was a bad thing when nelf assasin killed a belf envoy in ashenvale.
It was a bad thing when Highmountain envoy was also killed in ashenvale.
It was a bad thing when the negotiations between nevles and tauren in Cata were sabotaged.
Each time it was shown as a wrong thing to do, and narrative was showing that as evil act.
But they were concerned over Zandalari negotiating with Horde. Zandalari were also fighting against the Horde. But Horde was open to it, and Alliance would rather drop the ball instead of trying to gain influence. Diplomacy isn’t about liking each other. There are no friendships in politics. Only business.
It just shows how Horde is actually ahead of Alliance when it comes to concept of diplomacy. And I find it hilarious. Horde does it better, they know their partners might be shady but the focus on common objectives makes them gain allies.
While Alliance is showing themselves as being morally superior yet, they’re dissing everyone who isn’t just like them and - judging by your and Vuldezi comments :
Expect them to act like Bolshevics when it comes to the treatment of royalty.
And you know what? I would be quite intrigued if that was an intentional narrative devs would go for. I like the idea, but writers never capitalize on these undertones.
No, I expect them to not bother lone vessels on the sea, and determine who has a pass or no, because that makes them equal to pirates.
I expect them to not assault/kidnap/attempt to kill diplomats/envoys/ for a good morning. And when they do to at least use their brains and do something pragmatic about it.
You were the one who wished for going back to “good old simple times where Horde was evil and Alliance good”.
But so far you’re listing all the reasons that makes Alliance look bad. Intentional or not.
It would simply make out of Anduin a hypocrite. It’s not a secret that I detest Anduin but even I’d call it a bollocks that a boy that consistently believed in good in every other people denies to give at least decent arrest to a princess.
It’s just a pure comedy. And of course I don’t expect for people to hold hands and be nice to each other, that’s a hyperbole.
But once again compare it to how Horde dealt with Anduin imprisonment - they were babysitting him through Pandaria because they knew that if something bad happens to him, they’re toast. They wanted to use him for negotiation but they also knew that they had to treat him well.
Alliance not only put Talanji behind the bar next to thieves and murders and rats, but they tried to kill her once she tried to get back home. That is quite a dedication to keep someone in chains.
But they do. They were upset over Rastakhan’s death. They realized that he was a king of his kingdom and he had a right to defend it. There was a visible guilt in it.
This is why it’s such a hilarious inconsistency. Either we pretend that we’re better than Horde, use diplomacy and try to negotiate, or at least treat captured diplomats well, or we admit that we have double standards depending on whom it is concerning and we have very narrow selection on who is worthy of sharing tables with us. You can’t have it both ways.
It does matter because they kidnapped her when she was on her voyage.
Imagine if USA kidnapped a child of some other prominent president, while the child was on a vacation trip. That would be a world-wide disaster.
Heck WW1 escalated because Austrian Duke was shot down.
You’d simply imagine that Alliance that littered Orgrimmar with spies, would be more conscious about making such a moves.
Such behaviour just shows a massive arrogance and desire to control, if they are hunting princesses on open seas, or sinking goblin ships because they’re “inconvenient witnesses”, burn Vulpera because they lent their caravans then they fit the definition of a world police.
That is a very valid ammo to write a convenient morally grey story, but since they Villian bat Horde so bad plenty of people skip these incidents or handwave them because Horde did so much worse.
So it would be interesting if Alliance was portrayed like that intentionally, but the narrative keeps on showing that Alliance is morally superior.
It’s almost like with Twilight (yes, I had the displeasure to read it) , Bella would be an interesting character if her being narcissistic and manipulating monster so others to do bidding for her was intentional story, but she was always written to be average girl.
Damn, I lost a track what was original point. 
Maybe enough with derail.
This person Zanthora has one of the most loose grasps on the lore, and events of the Warcraft universe I’ve seen.
Atleast they’re adopting an attitude of manically laughing at events, as they’ve made sure to point out in their most recent post. They sure are a laughing, funny type of person…
It’s not about having it my way .
If there is consistency in this game, then that is how acting against diplomats/royalties is a bad thing. Both from Alliance and Horde PoV.
Calia Menethil
But they always pretend that they’re doing righteous things, no? Alliance also had to be stopped multiple times because they were a threat to others.
Don’t rush towards an example.
But they were concerned over Zandalari negotiating with Horde. Zandalari were also fighting against the Horde . But Horde was open to it, and Alliance would rather drop the ball instead of trying to gain influence.
So open to it, Sylvanas wanted to use them to further her agenda… By the way. The Horde were open to fighting them? What?
It just shows how Horde is actually ahead of Alliance when it comes to concept of diplomacy. And I find it hilarious.
Rendorei
I would be quite intrigued if that was an intentional narrative devs would go for. I like the idea, but writers never capitalize on these undertones.
Almost nothing is said about her capture. Daddy has to die for her to have something to seethe about, that’s how little influence her capture held.
I expect them to not assault/kidnap/attempt to kill diplomats/envoys/ for a good morning. And when they do to at least use their brains and do something pragmatic about it.
Any sort of time frame you can give for when Talanji was captured? Sylvanas did just initiate open warfare, if it was after this fact, it’s kind of reasonable to stomp on the horde’s flowers even if it’s not understandable by you.
It would simply make out of Anduin a hypocrite. It’s not a secret that I detest Anduin but even I’d call it a bollocks that a boy that consistently believed in good in every other people denies to give at least decent arrest to a princess.
Anduin’s schtick is trying to avoid bloodshed. Sylvanas having Talanji is a leg up for the wrong reasons, it’s part of the story, deal with it.
It’s just a pure comedy. And of course I don’t expect for people to hold hands and be nice to each other, that’s a hyperbole.
Could have fooled me.
They were upset over Rastakhan’s death. They realized that he was a king of his kingdom and he had a right to defend it. There was a visible guilt in it.
It’s not pretending to be better then the horde in this case…
It does matter because they kidnapped her when she was on her voyage.
Where? Somewhere in Warcraft? Some recent dialogue?
Such behaviour just shows a massive arrogance and desire to control,
but since they Villian bat Horde so bad plenty of people skip these incidents or handwave them because Horde did so much worse.
So it would be interesting if Alliance was portrayed like that intentionally, but the narrative keeps on showing that Alliance is morally superior.
Should have killed people in the funeral.
I was writing a huge post trying to reply to you but I deleted all of it… I honestly don’t even know what you are debating here. What is your point?
Is it really “wah wah Alliance should be better?” Is that it?
If so no. They should not be. They should be worse because they are one dimensional as it is.